The Cost Of Living (For Jesus) Crisis

00:00:00: Why don't we just dab?

00:00:02: Just do a dab, for no reason.

00:00:06: We're rolling here!

00:00:07: Hi I'm Sanjay And

00:00:08: Ria Here as well which are all things life culture and faith in Jesus.

00:00:12: Welcome to

00:00:14: Spill the Chai.

00:00:47: We've been talking about our upbringing In particular how that has shaped our kind of faith in jesus but The cost Of some other thing's in family history Like what was that like for you choosing to be a Christian when all of your family are not?

00:01:08: Yeah, it was confusing.

00:01:10: I definitely just didn't know that you could be anything other than what you were born into.

00:01:14: yeah um uh i remember at school and you used to be able to do like show-and-tell i bring in my hindu gods and i tell all the kids on my class that if they like didn't believe in these things that they were going to go tell

00:01:27: Oh wow, you were an angelist.

00:01:29: For the Hindis!

00:01:30: Very very much was involved, part of the youth group and it was a huge part on my identity right?

00:01:35: Like I went to The Temple seven days week.

00:01:37: Went into the youth groups, went through summer camps every year.

00:01:40: It's been big part what connected me with my grandma And she is proud when i'm doing Hindu things.

00:01:46: Then started going along to church at end of my road where they ran once-a-week youth club very evangelistic and brought loads of friends because like fun free thing for Wednesday night and slowly started to hear about Jesus, but again didn't really connect Jesus with myself because I was Asian.

00:02:08: And i didn't know anyone that was asian That Was a Christian uh...and maybe one or two people that were older at my home church But Again it wasn't really relevant To me..And then I came to Lord Juan Uh...Origin of this hoodie?

00:02:22: I found this in my cupboard.

00:02:23: Haven't worn This In Years?

00:02:28: A test is that,

00:02:29: but I think we made those in...I want to say twenty thirteen because That's when We released the unique United EP.

00:02:39: I'm pretty sure it Is over ten years old and i still own It.

00:02:43: so come

00:02:44: on.

00:02:45: Well

00:02:46: like When that happened Because I know for you there were Yeah some serious costs To coming to faith In Jesus And they will also Some things that Happened which, you know we don't have to go into all the detail but like whatever you feel comfortable talking about.

00:03:02: I mean yeah my family when i was about ten years old kind of just fell apart.

00:03:07: My parents split up and my middle sister two sisters my little sister passed away And I remember being like The only thing I've got left is my faith.

00:03:16: uh even then because Of various like reputation and um how people perceived my family after choices my dad had made People just rejected us and you know had wanted no part.

00:03:29: I remember people At youth group telling me that their mom said that they couldn't sit next to Me because i was gonna be a bad influence on them Because of choices my dad has made And then

00:03:39: like your family were somehow cursed or

00:03:42: kind Of.

00:03:42: yeah, well Like i was My father's daughter so i Was going to turn out To Be Just like him.

00:03:47: So They Needed to avoid me at the plague.

00:03:49: um and i was ten Years old and i Had Done Nothing Wrong And so I actually stopped going to the temple after that.

00:03:56: Um, i was just so heartbroken and had lost everything I'd known.

00:04:01: uh...and I remember walking home from my grandma's house on a Sunday and walking past my home church.

00:04:09: um someone from youth group invited me in and I went every sunday and didn't really understand what was going on but something of The Love Of Jesus kept kind of creeping.

00:04:20: Yeah, having been along to Nordjivan kind of understood that I could be Asian and love Jesus.

00:04:24: And kinda that shift for me was really important.

00:04:28: but when i became a Christian it was on my first... My sister's birthed as the death anniversary.

00:04:33: we'd gone into like this temple like ritual that you do on the first anniversary.

00:04:40: And I remember sat there and just thinking what the heck am i doing here?

00:04:43: Like, I feel no peace!

00:04:44: And I felt desperate to get to church... ...and the second I arrived at Church.. ..I remembered this wash of God's Peace over me.... ...and don't remember what the sermon was about that day Don't know.

00:04:57: I don't know, but something over time of God showing up for me through those various people and then kind of the rejection of the Hindu community.

00:05:07: Um...I decided to give my life to Jesus But i didn't tell anyone for a whole year because I was like- I didn't know how to tell people this.

00:05:15: Like it felt like a shameful secret that I was hiding until I went to my friend's baptism and he shared this whole story.

00:05:24: And his whole friends and family came, and they share the story of why she wanted to get baptized.

00:05:28: And remember sitting there thinking?

00:05:29: I really want to get baptised.

00:05:30: It sounds like a really good idea.

00:05:31: Yeah!

00:05:32: And i um Went To My Pastor and I was Like I'd like to get Baptized and He Was Like We're not going to do it without your mom knowing and I'm so mad at him.

00:05:42: So I was like how day like This is just let me Just Do In Secret Get Over With.

00:05:46: Really Matt is wonderful, but he understood the culture that he lived in right?

00:05:52: He was like if I do this.

00:05:54: I'm gonna lose my mom and I mean she's going to distance herself from them And She'll never be saved because not that it's dependent on then But It would cause a big barrier.

00:06:07: Yeah

00:06:10: you know, reluctantly.

00:06:11: I obviously didn't understand any of that at the age but i remember sitting with them in the back room of my church and they had told me my mum would become a Christian And wanted to be baptised on what it meant for

00:06:21: me.

00:06:21: So then THEY told your mum?

00:06:23: Yeah well...I was there too!

00:06:25: Because like..I don't even know how to say this because we were

00:06:27: very young

00:06:28: really I was twelve or thirteen.

00:06:32: My mum was fuming and like, you know your mom's angry with the at home but not really in front of other people.

00:06:39: Yeah well do you know when your mums just wait till they get home?

00:06:42: That could mean nothing or it can be death!

00:06:44: You didn't know which one that was

00:06:45: right?!

00:06:47: But this time she blew up infront of others.

00:06:49: I was like gosh this is going to be bad.

00:06:53: She said no answer in terms that i'm dead.

00:06:59: Oh man, like what have I done?

00:07:04: So it clearly landed the change that had happened.

00:07:07: Well yeah and i think...I don't know whether she'd noticed small changes of the spirit but my parents would split up.

00:07:18: My mum was only one.

00:07:19: I had left in my household and she was now done with me.

00:07:25: And I just remember being so angry, and frustrated because I was like Lord you want me to get baptized?

00:07:30: Why are not allowing it happen?

00:07:31: why is this costing so

00:07:32: much?".

00:07:32: I don't know if feeling really embarrassed when my wider family found out and felt really insecure and just...like..I had just done something that were really wrong and I felt really ashamed.

00:07:41: um Like I'd committed this like grave sin against my family.

00:07:46: Um....and I think, well conversion is a sensitive topic in our family which i didn't know until much later so understandably like it was just really difficult and hard.

00:08:01: And again there's associations with becoming Christian because they were like you're going to become western this association that are gonna lose me right?

00:08:10: The only time her family loses their daughter when she gets married Right?

00:08:15: But they'd lost me already and I wasn't married.

00:08:16: Okay,

00:08:17: just to hover on that for a sec.

00:08:18: so the association with becoming Christian there's a loss kind of religiously because you came from this Hindu home but also cultural loss.

00:08:29: what are some of the misconceptions say as South Asian person looking at Western culture?

00:08:41: Christianity and Western culture are basically the same thing.

00:08:44: I think that's the mindset, isn't it?

00:08:45: That's where the starting point is.

00:08:47: And what-what... What IS that image?

00:08:59: Yeah!

00:09:01: that don't often reflect value in marriage or relationships, all like faithfulness.

00:09:06: That Asian culture upholds and says this is good?

00:09:09: This isn't noble-this is healthy?

00:09:12: Ironically which was the downfall of my parents' marriage right!

00:09:14: Like you know when your like well... But we love to be hypocrites don't we?

00:09:20: so...

00:09:21: The human condition yeah it's not just for South Asians

00:09:25: but what I think really hard being Hindu and Indian are tied together.

00:09:32: Like there's a lot of things that are cultural and even now I'm not sure, I could differentiate everything that was cultural.

00:09:40: No because they're intertwined in the way their designed?

00:09:43: Yeah!

00:09:44: That is an interesting thing that I've noticed gets portrayed from more traditional South Asian perspective.

00:09:51: when you think about being Christian or Christianity is Western-ness And so for I've had friends in this context, family these contexts which have looked at Western society.

00:10:05: In the majority very secular marriages don't last a lot of drunkenness.

00:10:11: A lot of you know wayward living or whatever you want to call it and there's this context that that equates to Christianity.

00:10:21: Yeah!

00:10:22: So someone becoming Christian means having loose morals, someone not being very responsible living a life of kind-of sin I guess and that is for traditional Asian minds anyway.

00:10:38: Yeah so it's really funny as when i got engaged to Sean who from his name...

00:10:47: Is not a South Asian?

00:10:49: No he is from Reading!

00:10:52: As white as they come.

00:10:54: but I remember having a conversation with my grandma about it and didn't tell her at all that i was dating anyone because she kept showing me boys on the iPad.

00:11:09: After you finish your degree, we'll get married off told her that we were engaged because that was like, I'm serious.

00:11:19: This isn't just...I've got a boyfriend and i remember she's-she questioned me quite a lot.

00:11:24: um and some of the things she asked me was like do you guys live together?

00:11:27: And I was like no!

00:11:29: Because that scene has a western.

00:11:32: uh She was

00:11:33: like, have you slept together yet?

00:11:34: And I was like this is awful talking to my grandma about this.

00:11:37: But I was.

00:11:38: no and she's does.

00:11:40: he come from a good family as absolutely his parents wonderful?

00:11:44: Does He Have A Good Job?

00:11:46: ask me all these questions on everything that she could throw against Sean he stood up against not because of who he was or his culture or anything but because Christ in him something of a comfort to her, that I had not married someone she would necessarily approve off.

00:12:06: But our relationship stood up to standard that she held personally and That is very Asian

00:12:16: but came from Christian convictions.

00:12:18: Yeah And i suppose thats the interesting thing To kind of wrestle with sometimes isn't it?

00:12:24: because we've got family or an outside view?

00:12:28: There's this very stereotypical view of what Christianity might be, which is conflated with the culture.

00:12:34: Or... The other end of it!

00:12:35: Is that sort-of wooden caricature or very stiff, nineteen fifties christianity?

00:12:43: I was telling some friends of mine that aren't Christians but are Asians about church life and they couldn't get in their head a modern version because they've never been to Church before of what it was like and for them, it was all suits and pews.

00:12:59: And very traditional in terms of what might have been shown on a you know vicaridibly or something... You know some kind of... Excellent show!

00:13:07: Some kind of traditional westernized version um.

00:13:11: and yet actually the space that I was living in was sort this total unknown uncommunicated place where it isn't wayward Western culture, and that is a wooden kind of old school traditional media caricatures.

00:13:28: Of Christianity.

00:13:29: It's actually this life-giving thing That sits somewhere in between all of it And its grounded not by culture but by faith In Jesus as As the kind of overall.

00:13:41: So okay so you You were in in that space with your mom looking at you saying?

00:13:50: a Christian, did your mum think she's been lost to the kind of world of Britain or?

00:13:58: I think so.

00:13:59: She would pray more when i was in the room like waiting for me to come into her room and then showing her holiness praying to idols at our house And I just remember being like oh man this is never gonna happen.

00:14:15: And then a couple months later, I remember being walked home even though i literally lived on the road by one of the leaders and...I opened the front door.

00:14:24: My mum was sobbing..and she was putting the Hindu idols that we'd had in my house since before I was born away!

00:14:35: ..And what is going?

00:14:36: It's so

00:14:37: weird!!

00:14:38: I don't know whats happening here And she just turned to us and she said, like I love Jesus.

00:14:43: So now when it be baptised on Alice light what the heck?

00:14:47: How did that happen?

00:14:49: She

00:14:49: does have this experience with God and she can't tell you doesn't know if you ask her.

00:14:53: so in her own separate from you

00:14:56: independent god was just moving.

00:14:59: Wow!

00:14:59: Anna remember thinking Like I've become a Christian an I've lost everything and This is really had already lost Everything.

00:15:06: how could i lose everything even more?

00:15:08: And I had and it became the greatest gift that my mom actually ended up getting baptized on same day as me.

00:15:14: Um, and now is like thriving...I mean It's been a journey for all of us.

00:15:19: um unlearning A lot of things That were like habitual Asians and are learning a lot Of religiousness Like doing to please God Yeah and just Learning grace and forgiveness unlike deep Love that can't be earned.

00:15:35: So I think we've been on a really long journey over the last fifteen years, but by God's grace my younger sister loves The Lord and was baptized recently.

00:15:47: It was huge transformation But it came at great cost.

00:15:52: Over-the-years has cost us in different ways.

00:15:55: Costs us friendships, relationships, like various other things.

00:16:04: now, in that sense your whole immediate family at least has come to know the Lord

00:16:09: and

00:16:10: are together in that.

00:16:11: I remember someone once said to me um really?

00:16:14: Your family history has changed forever!

00:16:16: And i was like what do you mean?

00:16:17: she was well Jesus is in it now.

00:16:20: Like he's in your family history for generations to come, this family has forever changed and I was like that's wild!

00:16:29: And do you know?

00:16:30: Do have so much hope of my family as a wider family too...like I've had hope from us..and I'm hoping God can measure me more than I could ask or imagine.

00:16:42: not because anything other then the fact That Jesus Is In It Now Man, I can just continue to be who God made me in that.

00:16:53: and it's been difficult like straddling the worlds.

00:16:56: Like going along all the temples with my family on Diwali because they want to part of their families but you don't pray or bow down.

00:17:17: That's a really difficult line.

00:17:18: I think being able to hold the line of what is true and right, still extend relationship be present for festivals or key moments in life... weddings, funerals that kind of thing.

00:17:34: I mean

00:17:34: our wedding are you in that conversation?

00:17:37: but it took so much intentionality to think about how we blended both of our cultures together and how...I didn't want my family just come and say oh she's married an English guy.

00:17:48: this is a white western wedding.

00:17:49: Christianity

00:17:50: isn't for me!

00:17:51: Right

00:17:51: whereas we had scripture in Gujarati and songs in Hindi cultural elements from Asian weddings in our wedding.

00:17:59: And like, I think they were even so shocked that all of our English friends wanted to wear Lengas and Guddas... Yes!

00:18:06: ...and that they wanted to eat Indian food and people would dancing.

00:18:10: Like our bridesmaids did a dance-to-a-bollywood song.. Yeah?

00:18:14: ..and i don't think any of them were asian right but did the dance.

00:18:17: um and for them it was an immersive experience.

00:18:24: this doesn't have to be separate.

00:18:26: And I think that was really important for us.

00:18:31: Genuinely, Sean's Indian wedding outfit.

00:18:33: he would wear it any day He loved- he loved it His dad loved it and his Dad is like... I need more

00:18:37: gold!

00:18:38: More gold!

00:18:39: No suck Phil!

00:18:41: I mean there something.

00:18:43: so because its different That thing of being rewired as a family Like my families one generation on from yours.

00:18:50: Yeah In terms of that storyline cuz It wasn't.

00:18:53: It was my parents who bore the cost of coming to Christ.

00:18:58: My dad as a teenager from a Sikh background, um... A particular sect of Sikhism and then you know it was a secret Christian for years was sneaking out to church.

00:19:09: You know most people are sneaking away from church like he was sneaking up to get to Church And As a result of that He was sharing with his sister Who then also came to faith.

00:19:22: when my grandparents found out that was bad for, for my dad.

00:19:28: In fact I think they arranged the elders of the Sikh community come and tell me to be brainwashed by these Christians.

00:19:34: um any sort of politely listened and ignored it and carried on?

00:19:38: And he remember my mum some of dads from Punjabi background mom's from a Gujarati background.

00:19:42: um she came she came to faith as well in Jesus from a Hindu background and again massive ripple effects huge cost for them.

00:19:50: And I grew up with this question, you know why would they do that?

00:19:53: Why it cost them so much.

00:19:56: What's the point

00:19:56: was like?

00:19:58: unless This is real and actually has an impact for now in eternity They wouldn't mean fools to do this because they lost their parents backing.

00:20:08: You know That sort of emotional practical financial yeah all of that.

00:20:12: they lost relationships that they would have grown up.

00:20:15: You know, the community... I suppose this is a thing i wanted to ask about because community in South Asian culture it's such a big deal isn't?

00:20:22: Like if you're part of the community for them there was so much cost there.

00:20:29: yeah but i'm a product of their sacrifice in some ways because they were able to hold a line..I don't think it was easy and maybe at some point we'll get Dad on here too talk about that.

00:20:42: I think we would be fools not to... Yeah,

00:20:44: but like there was a holding the line and carving out of future which wasn't their past you know.

00:20:52: so what they had experienced good and bad i remember you know that was something that particularly dad wanted to draw a line in the sand about.

00:21:00: no we're building something do?

00:21:01: we are intentionally rewiring

00:21:03: our family?

00:21:03: And not away from who we are but like towards it, right?

00:21:07: Even more so.

00:21:09: Yeah well I grew up in that very much embraced world of the Christian faith and Asian culture That i didn't suddenly stop being South-Asian.

00:21:17: It was funny because when When I went to college one Of the first times I realized The tension between cultural faith Because I largely went To a very Western white school And it wasn't particularly Challenged But when loads of South Asian young people.

00:21:37: And I was the only one who were South Asian and Christian, so there were South asian Muslim friends, Sikh friends Hindu friends... Interesting!

00:21:44: ...and when they came in had conversations with me you know.

00:21:46: The question is what are you?

00:21:47: There's like a human being.

00:21:49: thanks very much.

00:21:50: You know What do mean.

00:21:51: why are you?

00:21:51: and it was always this idea of yeah Do you believe watch your religion?

00:21:54: What category are you in?

00:21:55: What pocket can i put you into?

00:21:58: And weirdly, I was a Christian but sort of at that age where...I still figuring it out as mid-teens.

00:22:07: I knew what i believed But hadn't really explored like growing up in the christian environment It really forced me to go away and think well gotta read Bible for myself here actually understand who this Jesus is.

00:22:22: Anyway In context It was funny because as I said, Christian it meant that i didn't really know where I was going to sit in terms of these friendships.

00:22:30: That had...I mean there's literally a cafeteria tables for the Sikh boys Muslim Boys like There wasn't one for this the Christian South Asian Christians and so trying to find my relationships.

00:22:44: Yeah Immediately saying the word Christian immediately cost me In that context And I thought is costing me an I haven't even realized what I believe.

00:22:53: And so it sent me on a bit of journey to say, well... ...I understand who Jesus is at peripheral level.

00:22:59: I've grown up in church and heard the stories but when i started reading The Bible for myself particularly was reading John's Gospel.. ..I discovered if this is Jesus not only as he way more radical than I thought He was that the bible says He still alive and I can know Him!

00:23:18: So there kind of quiet moment in my room Jesus, if there's you I want to follow.

00:23:22: You and no lightning bolts in the sky No magic moment but just slowly over time Recognizing that conviction that I'm like.

00:23:32: I think he said before i'm someone who is contributing To this end of the world not taking from it?

00:23:37: I need a solution And the saviour as their solution.

00:23:40: and so for me There was a certain cost But it wasn't the cost of my parents.

00:23:45: yeah I live in the grace and in the benefit, i think of people who've made that choice a bit like you make that choice to stand up.

00:23:56: And i guess i'm saying part of that because i'm hoping it'll put a steel in people's spine.

00:24:01: for who... Because we have come across this again and again here at church and in The Wider Context with Lord Javan where people have experienced an isolation and loneliness and a scariness about following Jesus that if they were to tell their families, the cost could be incredibly high for them.

00:24:22: And many choose to live more secretively and probably wisely for a time.

00:24:29: When it comes to things like baptism hold back but to be obedient to the scriptures.

00:24:35: in wanting to follow Christ you know what You did actually saying.

00:24:38: I need to be baptized here?

00:24:43: as we do that in faith, what God might do could be beyond our expectation and our imagination.

00:24:53: And I think also...I know we talked about it a lot last time but i think that's part of why the church has to come in like you have to be family together!

00:25:01: Like I needed my for a season when my aunties and uncles struggled with this idea which is so understandable I needed aunties and uncles at my church who got it, loved me.

00:25:14: And you know i'm really grateful for my family's wonderful.

00:25:17: they have come away and noticed the change in me since Christ has come into my life obviously was not instant.

00:25:26: My teenage years were rocky because being a teenager is just hard but like more recent years I think have seen that it has steadied that nothing else did.

00:25:38: So it's been a witness to him?

00:25:39: Well, I hope so!

00:25:40: Yeah...

00:25:42: The Bible says honour your father and mother.

00:25:45: It is one of the commandments And Jesus doesn't come to abolish the law He comes to fulfil it.

00:25:56: Is it the case That okay well i've become Christian.

00:25:58: My family aren't Christians.

00:25:59: I can just disregard what they say.

00:26:02: What would you tell

00:26:05: them?

00:26:06: It's a tension, isn't it?

00:26:08: My mum is a Christian and loves the Lord.

00:26:11: And has always wanted for me to have a good job To earn enough money...to buy house..To not struggle in ways that maybe she had struggled before.

00:26:23: I know that comes from a real deep place of love.

00:26:26: When i told her i was going do a philosophy degree She said what for Like, what job does that lead to?

00:26:32: There wasn't a clear...

00:26:33: Perfect question

00:26:34: comes.

00:26:35: What was I doing on?

00:26:35: no one knows.

00:26:38: but yeah there wasn't like a clear-I wasn't doing medicine which would mean i'd be a doctor right or I wouldn't do a teaching course.

00:26:47: and then got my job in young life.

00:26:49: And To Be Honest Young Life is a bit strange to understand But I tried explaining it with mum as a youth worker at my heart.

00:26:55: just tell kids about Jesus and over on these youth clubs, take kids to summer camp.

00:27:01: She was like yeah but when are you gonna get a real job?

00:27:04: And I was like no this is my real job!

00:27:06: For really long time she kept sending me job applications... My heart one day it's to train as qualified counsellor.. ...and i've been delaying that as ministry has grown.... When will your master do the same thing?

00:27:24: One day having phone call with her doing her regular spiel about why I hadn't got a real job and wasn't going to earn enough money, all from love.

00:27:34: And like worry for

00:27:35: me.".

00:27:36: And I remember just telling her mom might not be doing the thing that earns me the most amount of money or my not being doing things people expect me do or is perceived successful but i'm doing what God has called me to do and she was silent.

00:27:57: From then on, my mum has not questioned my job.

00:28:00: She's not questioned by decision uh... Not that she fully gets it but she is understanding.

00:28:07: um the choices I've made and i think there's a line of which we have to be obedient to God.

00:28:12: in those ways like this is what where god has called me.

00:28:16: But my duty also just to honor my mom And see where he's coming from?

00:28:19: Yeah!

00:28:20: And part comes with age time.

00:28:22: It's learning.

00:28:23: your parents may have made mistakes and are humans, but they love you.

00:28:27: And they are for you particularly in those Asian values of like succeed and do well.

00:28:33: it all comes from.

00:28:34: I just don't want you to struggle like i did...and I think that was control and disappointment when I was growing up and learning that really is because my mum cares about me wants me be okay she wants die one day knowing im fine.

00:28:52: I think it's a really, really difficult line to walk.

00:28:54: Yeah and i guess we're not saying that... It is straight forward just to obey the parents?

00:29:00: I guess thats'the thing.

00:29:01: its his honour.

00:29:02: your mother & father doesn't necessarily say obey everything they say And the scriptures are balanced in this way.

00:29:11: yet Jesus also said he came to divide households.

00:29:14: you know He didn't come bring peace which was an ironic statement.

00:29:19: I will bring division because of the way that the message of the gospel brings division.

00:29:24: Yeah, i was just thinking if there's a you know young person who is wanting to follow Jesus and their family aren't Christians There are gonna be lots of decisions micro-decisions big decisions on how they walk out in an honoring way To their parents...I guess In some ways..there're going to be moments where they have make a stand.

00:29:45: And yet in lots of other ways, there are things that perhaps they can let go and

00:29:50: I think it's knowing what hill to die on this net.

00:29:52: There are some things that like i'm not going to compromise on This but something so you're like okay?

00:29:57: Well

00:29:58: and then every single one doing that in a loving and respectful way You know mean the Bible does tell us to be respectful with those who don't believe and have different beliefs.

00:30:09: Be gentle And that applies to our parents as well.

00:30:13: I guess, you know if there are those challenges and those Pressures then how do we live the out?

00:30:20: because in the process of wanting to follow Christ?

00:30:21: We don't want a neglect The heart and the attitude, yeah You wanna be a witness In your context.

00:30:28: Yeah i think.

00:30:28: but thats the The particular challenge perhaps for Those who are experiencing these kinds of pressures.

00:30:36: We talk about it to my teenagers a lot, but like you know It's all well and good sharing our faith with our friends.

00:30:41: But actually if doesn't match how we live Yeah means nothing.

00:30:44: yeah

00:30:45: You can preach good news and be bad news in the way that

00:30:49: And what I'm noticing actually increasingly young people.

00:30:52: they don't care About What you're saying.

00:30:53: They care about whether it makes A difference To your life.

00:30:55: And so, like if you are a Christian who has come from non-Christian family or family from different faith background and your life hasn't shifted.

00:31:06: Or there hasn't been a change of lifestyle changed.

00:31:12: I mean... Yeah Who's gonna listen right?

00:31:15: No one is going to care!

00:31:16: And i think part the ways that my family have they might disagree with me in comments below but I think part of it, they've noticed a shift in me that if you look at the way my life has gone doesn't make sense.

00:31:34: And where could have come from?

00:31:37: That doesn't mean like yep Jesus is real but had to be kind of connected and again wasn't immediate transformation.

00:31:45: It was years and years actually unworking lot stuff for me That actually was quite harmful, lots of things from my family that were quite harmful.

00:31:59: Things I'd learnt-my own sin!

00:32:01: I mean tons of it right?

00:32:03: But um...

00:32:04: I guess as well within all of all of that you know yes It's a witness to the world but actually its testament To the faith we say have.

00:32:14: We aren't saved by our works.

00:32:16: You cannot earn your way to relationship with Jesus.

00:32:19: Thank

00:32:20: goodness

00:32:20: And thank God, because the way he's designed it is that by his grace.

00:32:25: It's all a free gift.

00:32:26: and yet when we truly know then have received them there's a conviction of our sin.

00:32:32: We will live different and the fruit of our lives Is a testimony?

00:32:36: Of what you've believed?

00:32:37: yeah, and so if we aren't seeing that transformation Yeah, and if we are not seeing a change and it may not all be that visible immediately But if we ain't sensing or knowing that I mean really got to question If we've really understood who Jesus is and the impact he has on our lives.

00:32:54: And so I think that's a reminder for all of us, regardless to culture or situation we find ourselves in... ...to walk the way of Jesus requires transformation.. ..and it comes by his spirit & power at work not some human effort.

00:33:10: but we do need partner with God to see that transformation in life That will bring honour to His name as we attempt to honour Our families.

00:33:20: And it's not something that I guess we're saying is easy, but something that.

00:33:24: We're walking with.

00:33:24: and maybe if you know people are listening to this that are struggling with that an don't have anyone to turn into like they reach out to us because that's something we want to try and help facilitate or engage.

00:33:36: um People would be part of something where?

00:33:39: They're not alone.

00:33:40: That's one of our yeah missional values isn't it that people will be family together as part And

00:33:46: we'd love to hear those stories, right?

00:33:47: Of just the Lord like working in their situations.

00:33:51: Because they're encouragement my faith and an encouragement to continue living when it's costly.

00:33:58: We need each other do that so I think its really important.

00:34:01: Final question When was last time you had a curry sandwich?

00:34:06: Many, many years ago.

00:34:08: Traumatised!

00:34:09: Yeah... It's

00:34:09: done.

00:34:10: To be fair though I think when you move away from him.

00:34:13: When i moved away form him it was like oh thank goodness to have to eat Indian food again.

00:34:16: And now im like gosh.

00:34:17: what would give for my mum to make me dull?

00:34:20: Because it just doesn't taste the same as when your mom makes it its different.

00:34:25: Welcome to

00:34:26: Spill The

00:34:40: Chai.