Vigorous Parents And Vapour Rub

00:00:00: I suggested a segment where Sanjay and i just make Indian food.

00:00:06: I would love to

00:00:07: see it!

00:00:08: So, if you think we should do it let us know

00:00:11: because... I'm gonna have some chai.

00:00:13: Should be drinking a cold chai?

00:00:16: Hey

00:00:17: its

00:00:18: lukewarm.

00:00:19: Time to slurp.

00:00:20: I haven't slept

00:00:21: yet.

00:00:22: Let's hear your slurp.

00:00:26: Hey that was strong.

00:00:27: Oh, it's not warm is ice cold.

00:00:29: Hold on let me try.

00:00:30: this is

00:00:31: steeped.

00:00:32: This is

00:00:34: seriously steeped Esther.

00:01:03: Lovely to have you with us.

00:01:05: welcome.

00:01:05: well I feel like i'm On your podcast YouTube

00:01:08: and I want you to know That you

00:01:10: should feel that way

00:01:11: but i'm glad To be in the room anyway.

00:01:14: nice to have.

00:01:14: You're

00:01:15: Welcome.

00:01:16: Can you tell who are?

00:01:17: because People might not know you.

00:01:19: I don't

00:01:19: know how to introduce myself when people ask me this, and what do you want?

00:01:22: What...I did not say!

00:01:23: It's hard isn't it?

00:01:24: Tell me your name tell me what you'd do When You're Not Here on our podcast And tell Me What Is Your Favorite Way To Spend A Day Off?

00:01:36: Go!

00:01:37: Ooh!

00:01:39: I'm Esther and i am a secondary school teacher.

00:01:43: I teach the glamour subject of English, which everyone loves.

00:01:49: And on my day off what's my favourite thing to do?

00:01:56: Depends!

00:01:56: You haven't said see me yet and...

00:01:59: I won't lie to you.

00:02:00: Sanjay welcome to our podcast.

00:02:03: there was a school holiday half term and i didn't want to admit it but basically saw Ria every for like the whole day.

00:02:12: And I

00:02:13: genuinely think- You two are sisters without being sisters aren't you

00:02:16: basically?

00:02:16: Do ya know, do you think that we saw each other most of that week even though we spent a year living together?

00:02:22: and then there was this week where they were just more.

00:02:24: It's just

00:02:24: more.

00:02:25: it was intentional in that.

00:02:26: Very

00:02:26: lovely because we have time off together which is such a win!

00:02:30: Because the assumption is oh i'll see... That's what happens.

00:02:34: I love that.

00:02:35: We get on to random stuff

00:02:40: Here with us.

00:02:42: feels like eight years.

00:02:43: So

00:02:44: why would you say eight?

00:02:45: It's not a seven,

00:02:48: because I've been here seven yes and You've been her year.

00:02:52: No

00:02:53: no you've been his six.

00:02:55: I didn't

00:02:56: know.

00:02:56: one knows a while

00:02:57: A long time

00:02:58: And you came as a student to the city

00:03:00: still feel like I'm nineteen Yeah, just like discovering lighthouse for the first time.

00:03:06: yeah But you came and cuz you got baptized here, like your whole spiritual journey has kind of been

00:03:13: moving.

00:03:15: And then you joined this quite international but South Asian focused church?

00:03:21: Why and why have you stuck around?

00:03:25: Yeah that's a good question!

00:03:29: I just loved it...I think i felt so welcomed..i met.

00:03:39: they were basically like just come to church and I was, okay.

00:03:41: And then...I didn't think I noticed that it was so different even my church growing up because everyone's just nice!

00:03:51: It is a normal Church but as time has passed i've become slightly more self-Asian.

00:03:59: They're

00:04:00: no stuff probably have no business knowing.

00:04:03: Not in

00:04:04: weird way.

00:04:04: sometimes you are Indian And I mean that in like a huge compliment.

00:04:09: Yeah.

00:04:10: Like, ethnically ambiguous.

00:04:11: now... I think

00:04:12: subscribe to different places.

00:04:16: Like sometimes

00:04:17: you're... Fluid.

00:04:18: Ethnically fluid.

00:04:20: Exactly!

00:04:21: Sometimes you'll talk to me In my mother tongue.

00:04:24: I know because she just teaches me stuff

00:04:26: and i'm like

00:04:27: What?

00:04:28: Is

00:04:28: it is?

00:04:29: It's just the product of being around Ria?

00:04:31: Probably And everyone else.

00:04:34: Yeah, everyone else!

00:04:36: It's just if you go to Lighthouse You will eventually just pick stuff

00:04:40: up.

00:04:40: But it is not that foreign because... Obviously going in a Nigerian

00:04:45: home.

00:04:48: There are similarities A

00:04:49: hundred percent.

00:04:52: We've had so many conversations about this.

00:04:55: Tell me some of your favourite immigrant households.

00:05:00: Start a pack.

00:05:01: If you were telling someone, yeah.

00:05:04: What does

00:05:04: it

00:05:05: mean?

00:05:05: Yeah the core memory is just getting ready for school.

00:05:09: there are three of us we my sister and brother myself And Getting Ready For School was a conveyor belt.

00:05:15: My parents did not mess around.

00:05:17: We'd had no time.

00:05:18: two parents working jobs.

00:05:19: You need to get ready so one person's in the bathtub Mom's scrubbing your face!

00:05:25: You can't breathe...you can't

00:05:27: hear..You don't have choice

00:05:30: You don't even need to speak because the soap is everywhere and for some reason they need to scrub really vigorously.

00:05:36: And

00:05:36: you close your eyes so hard that when we open them, you're like will I ever see again?

00:05:41: Like just like spots!

00:05:43: Yeah...and then my dad's drying me vigorously again.

00:05:47: Body cream

00:05:48: vigorously....And it's not a little like...

00:05:50: No no no.

00:05:53: All over my face.

00:05:55: And then The Vaporub before

00:05:58: school.

00:05:59: Yes, on my chest because God forbid it's cold in the UK.

00:06:03: Yeah It is called.

00:06:04: I would like to say that you

00:06:05: have adopted the vigorous vapor rubbing

00:06:09: technique when a real sick Vigorous baby

00:06:13: lives on.

00:06:13: and yes, I'd

00:06:15: like to show me a sick put vapor up on her.

00:06:18: Okay Do do know what they're about?

00:06:21: The vapor of thingy is definitely as like

00:06:23: you've got.

00:06:23: my mother-in-law is Very very insistent on the paper up

00:06:29: X and J

00:06:29: for us, and our children.

00:06:30: It's

00:06:31: good for

00:06:31: you.

00:06:32: Yeah

00:06:32: now let me ask you another

00:06:33: question.

00:06:34: I'm not denying that.

00:06:35: did

00:06:36: your mom?

00:06:36: let you leave to house without a vest

00:06:39: Not even vest.

00:06:40: thermals.

00:06:41: we had leggings and tops we had to wear.

00:06:45: And I kid you not, there were...I saw like grew older!

00:06:48: And i started to notice- hold on Henry doesn't wear thermals Suzy doesnt' wear thermos.

00:06:55: Why is it just me?

00:06:56: Im gonna rebel!

00:06:58: I'm not going to wear my thermos today.

00:07:00: Let's see what happens.

00:07:01: So after a very vigorous shower Vigorous body dry, vigorous body cream I said Today Is The Day I'M NOT WEARING MY LEGINS

00:07:10: OR MY

00:07:10: VEST.

00:07:11: Yeah, and I just put my school clothes on.

00:07:13: Smelling a vapour up going downstairs about to leave the house.

00:07:19: Come here!

00:07:20: And turn around like yes mom she's like where is your vest?

00:07:24: I'm like... She said go and wear it back on!

00:07:29: Start screaming.

00:07:29: so i go in and put my vest back on.

00:07:31: My mum used to say if I hear... It's over That's it.

00:07:37: So when did get a cough had hold my lips like this

00:07:42: Oh my gosh.

00:07:43: My mum used

00:07:43: to wrap me so

00:07:45: hard in thermals that I would like walk to school and

00:07:49: I'm

00:07:49: sweating because we also wore jumper, shirt blazer.

00:07:54: Oh my god there's a furnace!

00:07:56: Because my mum made me wear thermals in July

00:07:59: And then dad'd make us wear scarf hat gloves every day.

00:08:05: Yeah,

00:08:05: I'm surprised that didn't go into crime because i wore a strip of balaclava every day covered me

00:08:10: head to toe just in my

00:08:12: eyes.

00:08:14: You were like dressed for crime by your parents.

00:08:17: hundred percent

00:08:19: love that.

00:08:19: um is there for you like culturally?

00:08:26: and then was it a christian home that you grew up.

00:08:29: but within were there cultural things that made sense for you.

00:08:34: being a Christian and being Nigerian in Britain, what did that feel like?

00:08:39: In your

00:08:39: life.

00:08:40: So yeah both my parents are Christians.

00:08:42: it was just very normal to go to church.

00:08:47: growing up.

00:08:48: we went into an international Church.

00:08:50: so There were other Nigerians here at church.

00:08:52: but I'd just assumed Most people went to church on a Sunday, and then- You were

00:08:56: primed for it.

00:08:57: Yeah!

00:08:57: I went to Tesco, carry my Bible after church would go have like chicken going by chicken or whatever And be walking around the supermarket with my bible wondering why aren't you having a bible?

00:09:07: Why are YOU not at

00:09:07: Church?!

00:09:08: Why do you not stack some chairs?

00:09:10: Like... A Sunday goes to church.

00:09:12: So its very normal.

00:09:13: My parents where really big being out of church every sunday.

00:09:18: i think that was my dad especially he would wake up in the morning, blast Hillsong clean that whole house.

00:09:25: Wash the car

00:09:26: before

00:09:27: church and then he's there setting out the chairs Wow!

00:09:30: And then he says I bless you they're ten.

00:09:32: thirty a.m.

00:09:33: my mom she relaxes she just run on ran an African time so we'd get to church at like quarter to eleven eleven but luckily my dad was already there.

00:09:43: save us seats yeah.

00:09:44: So Church is just very normal part of growing up

00:09:48: Is it by the way?

00:09:48: It's african Time More delayed than Indian standard time.

00:09:52: I would say so

00:09:54: it depends on your family

00:09:56: Really?

00:09:57: On our wedding day, I told my family nine a.m.. Get there.

00:10:01: Our wedding did not start till half-twelve but i just needed to make sure

00:10:05: that happens and To be

00:10:08: all credit to them.

00:10:09: they were their own time.

00:10:10: They didn't wait for six hours.

00:10:14: There was a wedding.

00:10:15: I went once where an indian girl marrying Uh, like a mixed race guy.

00:10:20: But he was uh um his dad Was Nigerian.

00:10:23: I think We got to the wedding.

00:10:26: when it said To get to the Wedding

00:10:28: Why would you do that?

00:10:30: Well this is i know It's-it's A weird error isn't it?

00:10:33: Yeah!

00:10:33: I don't understand.

00:10:34: Clearly not of that nature.

00:10:35: And but it wasn't inside out.

00:10:36: It was like...It was a waste.

00:10:37: we had to drive there so we got there and Um The minister Had sort Of just opened the build.

00:10:44: No Literally nothing was happening.

00:10:48: no on time.

00:10:49: And then he kind of ambled around and went off for lunch whilst it was two hours later before anyone, anything began there.

00:10:56: I

00:10:56: do think

00:10:57: wedding days we need to just pull together

00:10:59: a little

00:11:01: bit.

00:11:01: That's so fun!

00:11:02: But you're right i think that should have known.

00:11:04: Two or three

00:11:06: hours is standard.

00:11:08: So my mum had a birthday party when she was fifty-five, started at four... She didn't get there until seven and that was her birthday party.

00:11:15: Four hurt?

00:11:16: Yeah for her!

00:11:17: Do you know what?

00:11:18: I love

00:11:18: that because auntie's building that suspense.

00:11:22: It's a bit stressful though when you have to plan like

00:11:24: events.

00:11:25: No, but

00:11:26: your mom is the queen and so therefore she arrives precisely what she means too!

00:11:30: And

00:11:31: why are you getting mad?

00:11:32: Why... Is her day angry that you've waited three hours?

00:11:36: just eat some food and don't come on time?

00:11:39: Yeah great So you had quite strong Christian early influence.

00:11:47: then how does life progress from there?

00:11:50: for

00:11:51: Yeah, so church every week all the nativities.

00:11:55: All home groups.

00:11:56: Who'd

00:11:56: you ever play Mary?

00:11:58: Yes loads of tea towels on their head had a weird like fusion British Nigerian upbringing Like primary school eating custard going home vapor up and just Nigerian food And it definitely felt like

00:12:13: who could do both custard and vapor rub.

00:12:16: You know lumpy custard Primary school with school

00:12:19: cake.

00:12:20: Yeah, it was school cake.

00:12:22: Anyway yeah that was very normal for us.

00:12:25: and then when I was ten my dad passed away from cancer.

00:12:31: um... And that was a really weird time of our lives because it was quite short but there was a very short time between us finding out he had cancer and him passing away.

00:12:41: It's literally year of him rapidly deteriorating.

00:12:48: It was just, unfortunately they caught the cancer at later stages so there wasn't really anything anyone could do.

00:12:56: So it's a year of basically nursing him and making him as comfortable as he can be but big transition for my family.

00:13:05: we literally moved house I think that same month when they told us dad had cancer And it was like a time almost of new beginnings for my family, but suddenly It was like This is a massive new beginning.

00:13:20: But we also realized eventually that our dad wasn't going to be part of Our lives the future.

00:13:26: Yeah Um But when you're getting

00:13:29: bit loads of loss as

00:13:31: yeah Yeah, there's just a strange time and when your turn You don't really under.

00:13:35: I didn't really understand what cancer was?

00:13:38: I just knew it was bad.

00:13:39: they didn't Really understand how it was going to affect things or what would be like for my dad not to be there because he just was.

00:13:50: Yeah, but He passed away and I just have this distinct memory of my mom pulling us all together And she's like right?

00:13:58: It's just the four of us.

00:13:59: now We've just got a stick with.

00:14:02: you know stick by each other and get through this.

00:14:05: Wow!

00:14:06: She is like

00:14:07: let go.

00:14:08: Your mum sounds very sort-of tough from kind of woman.

00:14:14: I think

00:14:14: she's

00:14:14: had to be, hasn't

00:14:15: she?

00:14:15: Yeah just really had to just grab us and go.

00:14:20: basically... She doesn't have gods we just have to go now.

00:14:24: yeah but that also shifted our experience as a church because my mum has worked more she has three kids, a new house like all these things happening and so we stopped going to church as frequently.

00:14:42: And then there was loads of other things that happened.

00:14:44: um I think i mentioned church so much because it was just a massive part of shaping my faith at that age and so when you stop going to that You kind of stop practicing Things that you've learned sometimes.

00:14:58: yeah not you're not surrounded by.

00:15:00: you know your community of believers.

00:15:02: Again, at the age of ten you're just like okay well now we don't really go to church and a lot shifted for our family in that time.

00:15:12: It was hard but processing what it means to live life about my dad I guess is the big thing!

00:15:22: What has been as you learn how to get to know God?

00:15:33: The three of us, we all come from very vastly different experiences.

00:15:39: I guess fatherhood like you have had a brilliant dad who we love and You are now a brilliant Dad And We get the honor of watching you raise your kids just feeling pride to know in that.

00:15:52: then you lost your dad at young age.

00:15:55: He was present and consistent A really big pillar Of Your Faith For me my family, like when I was ten my parents split up and my dad was just not a very loving guy.

00:16:09: And we kind of left on bad terms and haven't seen him for a really long time.

00:16:15: so yeah i guess...I would love to hear from both of you how that has shaped your view of God because what an integral part our faith right?

00:16:26: Our walk with Jesus is knowing and loving God the Father.

00:16:30: Yeah,

00:16:31: yeah that is a good question.

00:16:33: I think for me it's interesting.

00:16:37: one of the biggest struggles i have in my faith Is this idea God believes?

00:16:42: So do something crazy enough For god to be like.

00:16:46: right thats it!

00:16:47: Im done im out and just gets up and goes.

00:16:52: And don't think I previously linked This To having experienced such sudden death because that was ten and I didn't really expect my dad to die the way he did.

00:17:06: He went hospital, the next day he didn't come back like oh okay what does it even mean?

00:17:12: But i have a sense of well...I guess fear of loss in that sense especially with God.

00:17:22: interesting because if anyone is dependable it's God and Jesus literally signed his commitment to us with His life, with His blood.

00:17:32: Yet that is something that can sometimes kind of creep into my mind and I can operate out of that fear which then tends to drive a lot of like fear-driven behaviour.

00:17:43: okay how can i keep you here god?

00:17:45: Like almost like gain my salvation through works, essentially.

00:17:51: Yeah and how can you be pleasing God enough

00:17:55: that he won't leave?

00:17:55: He wouldn't run away...

00:17:56: Yeah yeah

00:17:58: does that consume I guess decisions you make or people you have in your life or relationships?

00:18:04: How has it affected you?

00:18:06: It affects the ability to trust.

00:18:10: God is who he says He Is.

00:18:12: And that can then impact my ability to trust other people, Who are like I'm here for you and not going any...I am like okay cool yeah You probably will because i'm used To having to build a certain resilience

00:18:25: of

00:18:26: experiencing People leave and just again Then picking up in getting on with it.

00:18:32: But the challenge With Christ In That is people fall short right?

00:18:40: Jesus is constant.

00:18:42: Yeah, and he there's just.

00:18:44: it's undeniable like.

00:18:49: It's undeniable love you can't ignore.

00:18:52: There's no where I can hide from a No angle.

00:18:55: i can look at it From.

00:18:57: He Is Constantly Loving And Constantly Choosing To Be There um...and that then challenges my ability to kind of Love other people as well and undo

00:19:09: some of the sort of narrative that you've experienced.

00:19:13: So do feel like it's rewiring some of them?

00:19:16: Definitely being transformed by the renewing my mind daily, I was even thinking about today how...I think in a story with women at The Well she is so desperate for Jesus to just tell me where this living water is because i never have come back.

00:19:33: And what she really meant by that was tell me where the water is, so I don't have to keep coming back here.

00:19:38: To be confronted with my shame and My sin Yeah...and kind of rigid public ridicule from all these other people.

00:19:47: So just give me the water so i can be With my husband.

00:19:50: Quote on quote

00:19:51: yeah..my

00:19:51: boyfriend in our house bye But Jesus In That Moment Was Inviting Her To Come.

00:19:58: All her brokenness, all her messiness like those five husbands that had been and gone didn't face him.

00:20:05: He said his response to her was go bring your husband in come here.

00:20:10: And I was like

00:20:11: oh That feels like me Like i'm very quick To be like.

00:20:17: Oh just give me the.

00:20:19: you know I'm going to tell you kind of the answer.

00:20:23: You want to hear, like just give me a quick fix so i don't have to keep coming back here and revealing myself to you in

00:20:28: doing

00:20:28: all this work?

00:20:30: And... This morning when I was thinking about it God was asking me do you trust

00:20:36: Me?!

00:20:37: And I had a very long pause because my initial answer most time is OF COURSE I TRUST YOU!

00:20:50: like the woman, I was afraid of how much my brokenness and my sin.

00:20:56: And my lack of trust would almost be too much for God as if he didn't make me... As if He didn't put Me together in My mother's womb right?

00:21:06: And it is If He doesn't know your story and you're all alone.

00:21:10: Yeah!

00:21:11: And He didn t die for You knowing Your Story

00:21:13: Right?!

00:21:14: So It s a Very regular challenge of him reminding me, Esther I'm showing up for you.

00:21:23: I'm here for you i love You.

00:21:26: come to Me Let's walk through life together.

00:21:32: and maybe it's harder For me To do because with God Because I don't have a dad that I can sit Through And be like hey there is this thing happening right now and have amazing, amazing people in my life who support me through so much.

00:21:45: But I guess there's a very unique place for... And the very special place of fathers' lives

00:21:52: that you might want to know.

00:21:54: What always amazes me about you is like this couple things one your... You've all often relied on scripture The way we read the Bible or joking before every bible you own it falling into pieces Because your life is not falling to pieces.

00:22:10: And because yeah, cause you have come into that realization and I don't know if maybe it's just the strong upbringing you had?

00:22:17: Maybe it's having gone through some of this sadness and grief and suffering of your own.

00:22:23: but you have a dependence on The Word Of God.

00:22:27: You rely on the scriptures...you know the scripture as well.

00:22:29: Your...I often think when you share about insights That Lord has given you in your...always really like we've been you know, collective and group from

00:22:38: time to time.

00:22:39: And like I hear those insights that are often very inspired by them because i think there's a depth in that... There is something solid about-

00:22:49: It's not rooted into what you know of Jesus?

00:22:52: Yeah!

00:22:53: So your feelings being the king or the thing that directs what you're going do with faith You come back through the scriptures which really comes over to me.

00:23:08: And I think that there's something very powerful about that when you think of absences in your life, because emotion is quite easy to follow isn't it?

00:23:18: Yes

00:23:19: yeah

00:23:20: and we are emotional beings so were not meant to switch them off but reading the Bible understanding the scriptures knowing who God's character is has truths to you must be even more important.

00:23:37: You do have gaps and suffering that you're walking with because you need those truths to know.

00:23:45: God is steady, a rock beneath our feet.

00:23:48: And

00:23:51: Gordon his great unchanging nature will keep reminding me of these things every single day like I can guarantee tomorrow he'll say he'll be who He is today, because that's just Who He says.

00:24:02: He Is right.

00:24:03: So there's never going to be a day where He will change any of those things.

00:24:07: and That To Me has great comfort in my grief And In My figuring out what life looks like without A dad.

00:24:14: Because I Just know well i'll see you tomorrow with it gone Like You Will Be God Do You Will be Who You Say You Are.

00:24:22: Yeah so It As Well With My Soul.

00:24:24: as My Mum Always Says

00:24:26: Good Reminder It's So Different For me.

00:24:29: I had sort of the opposite where, you know dad who's present he'd gone.

00:24:33: I think going through a lot challenges to create The home that we had and the family that we have.

00:24:39: And so we grew up my brother when i grow up in an environment which felt very safe all the time and Very intentional and crafted maybe very much like the earlier years for your life and Had the gift of continuing in lots of ways, you know.

00:24:58: And so there's like a... I've always thought of standing on the shoulders of giants that my dad is not that tall but metaphorically and their shoulders of Giants because they have had not just Dad other men who are Godly Men where we're men or women above us That will lead and guide set as standard all that stuff.

00:25:24: So I've had, and it's been a privilege...I always remember my dad sort of reckon i think i've shared before.

00:25:33: but his Dad was not like for him And one of his mandates being a dad in leadership at the home Was about setting a tone.

00:25:45: That wasn't what he received Whereas to me It would be To learn from an emulate Even half.

00:25:54: And so that is a gift in church leadership, you see all sorts of brokenness and difficulty.

00:26:01: So I've learned it to be really important thing That i have to recognize.

00:26:06: It's not given...I can't take it for granted..it's a gift In my life....and so thats huge.

00:26:12: Yeah!

00:26:12: That would inform how I want To Be A Dad.

00:26:17: Well we had the joy Of seeing How Its Has.

00:26:19: Oh yeah!

00:26:20: It Is a great privilege.

00:26:23: That's good.

00:26:24: I'm glad and we're figuring it out, you know there are challenges in that but there is a lot of learning about the role that you were describing.

00:26:32: seeing God as father comes pretty easily to me because i've seen what can look like an earthly sense In a good way And recognizing our Father Is A Person Of Encouragement And Safety And Challenge And

00:26:50: Hope.

00:26:51: You Know All These Things And so, and I often think of that in my own role as a dad.

00:26:58: Uh i am representing In one sense the first experience My children will have Of authority of love of safety of guidance and That is in-and-of itself presenting some kind of image of God As they discover who he Is?

00:27:13: So that's it's huge responsibility.

00:27:15: You know be furious bit different isn't It to both of us.

00:27:20: your sort journey was marked by a bit more, yeah again the different kind of tragedy.

00:27:29: Yeah I think that i would say that...I find it really hard to trust God which is like feels like a terrible thing to say because the basics.

00:27:43: and I think that i actually have only come to the realisation, that i struggle to trust god in the last five years.

00:27:50: Probably the most in the past couple of years um just having never had a dad i could trust.

00:27:57: uh trust not to leave, trust not hurt me... And i think that ive been hurt by my Dad so many ways.

00:28:03: but it feels more risky now because I'm like, well if my dad hurt me it would hurt but if God hurt me.

00:28:11: Like i don't think I could imagine what that would feel like.

00:28:14: and so I am still on this journey which kind of feels terrible cause I spend all of my days telling kids that god is the best heavenly father And he loves them to bits and is mad about them.

00:28:27: um...and..I know its true!

00:28:31: I believe in with life but I think when it comes to the core of myself

00:28:40: and

00:28:42: like just my faith, i'm like man.

00:28:46: trusting in God feels really hard.

00:28:48: Because we've often talked about that haven't you?

00:28:51: The idea of seeing god as father or spending a lone time...

00:28:55: It's the intimacy that terrifies me um and i'm learning it in small ways.

00:29:02: I think it has been a journey for me and still is.

00:29:07: And yeah, I feel like a fraud most days because I'm like... A little bit like Aladdin.

00:29:13: when are they going to discover that i am really poor street rat?

00:29:16: And I am not a prince!

00:29:19: Um..and....I don't know.

00:29:23: I hear God being well, I knew and its okay but I love you.

00:29:27: But I think thats the thing isn't that kind of imposter syndrome, even with a lot of good influence.

00:29:36: That still can be there and I think we have to be honest about it because being a Christian isn't an.

00:29:41: even the most mature Christians aren't sure of themselves in that sense Because To be a Christian you have to recognize.

00:29:49: You don't have any assurances in yourself.

00:29:51: Yeah But It can feel like two onlookers who've been around for long time especially your church setting.

00:29:58: You think, well those people have got it all together.

00:30:01: Those ones they understand God completely and their prior life is amazing!

00:30:05: They relate to God in this really intimate beautiful way... Well I don't know about that so i must have it all wrong.

00:30:12: That's such a common thing.

00:30:13: I've come against.

00:30:15: I think i'm learning that God made me like me and not like Sanjay or Esther, yeah.

00:30:20: And that's okay.

00:30:20: Praise the Lord for that!

00:30:21: I

00:30:21: am

00:30:23: created to know and love gods just at a slower pace.

00:30:27: um there's a little boy at church and in an like not strange way just observe him.

00:30:34: every week we have you know the bit of the front where all the kids play with their ribbons.

00:30:42: Over the course of many months, he'll sit with his mum.

00:30:46: And then one week she's like looking and I really want to join in!

00:30:50: You can see it in her eyes... Then on day that he stood up probably very distracted at this point during worship One day i watched him take a step forward.

00:31:03: The next thing is He went back to his mom, he was like I'm not ready.

00:31:08: And over the course of these months i've watched him slowly move close to the kids and often encourage him to pick up the ribbons, and now he's like willing to pick-up the ribbans.

00:31:28: He's willing to play but there are some days where has go back to mum with his ribbon or sometimes when you just can't bring himself do it?

00:31:34: And I feel that was this one Sunday were i felt God is like This Is How I See You!

00:31:40: Like very slow steps bar no matter how long takes...I'm always there being like It's Gonna Be Okay!

00:31:46: That

00:31:48: a really good picture because actually its an important thing.

00:31:51: You know, yes.

00:31:53: God is represented as father but there are lots of maternal images of god too.

00:32:00: you know I think if Jesus looking over Jerusalem weeping how long?

00:32:04: How i've longed to gather you As a hen gathers her chicks under wings.

00:32:08: it's this kind of incredible maternal love over the people.

00:32:12: So God does identify with that and like I'm just thinking about both of you guys With your mums Like my mum too Just very influential Very incredibly parent to give, particularly in your scenarios with such difficult circumstances.

00:32:28: To continue to lead you to guide.

00:32:30: You know that's a really beautiful picture of probably whether they've known it or not Your moms have provided for you guys too.

00:32:40: go out and be confident And look at what both are now.

00:32:45: The day our mums meet each other hasn't happened yet.

00:32:48: That

00:32:48: will be a...

00:32:49: Has it not?

00:32:49: No, the world will explode I think.

00:32:51: Oh gosh!

00:32:53: It will because its going to like a force of nature.

00:32:54: We could do The Meat on the podcast.

00:32:56: Maybe we should.

00:32:57: No,

00:32:59: I think that we're at whatever stage you are.

00:33:02: Like what ever kind of influence or a father you've had... ...I think everyone's on this journey and i think your right.. ..i think it is a mistake to think that every one who has had an easier or have a great dad or present dad or whose dad hasn't died just like how does he figured out?

00:33:19: and what, seeing this girl.

00:33:22: And I remember my whole life thinking if only had had a dad around X Y Zed.

00:33:28: to an extent that's true right?

00:33:30: But I remembered there was this girl that knew along time ago she had everything i could have ever wanted beautiful woman very gifted very talented loving Christian parents not know who she is, her whole life.

00:33:50: And I just...I remember watching here and thinking it's not the hand that i've been dealt with but its what.

00:33:57: do you have to choose to pursue a relationship of Jesus when thats really difficult like YOU

00:34:04: get

00:34:04: to chose to pursue your relationships with God When you're like..i don't know if he will leave me tomorrow.

00:34:10: There are some glory in those challenges isn't there?

00:34:17: Yeah, the hands that were dealt a bit are not fair.

00:34:20: Life is not fair and God doesn't seem to set it up that way.

00:34:24: And yet he's fair.

00:34:26: He's just...and so you know I wonder if US said there things that you have to push through To trust god.

00:34:33: There are gifts in that.

00:34:34: Yes for

00:34:35: sure That

00:34:36: come through.

00:34:37: Do you feel that?

00:34:38: Oh for sure!

00:34:40: I was also thinking today while I was hanging my laundry, very exciting.

00:34:45: But i-I was just thinking about how God uses every situation in our life to show us the cross like everything that's death always is resurrected in life with god?

00:34:58: That's just...

00:34:59: That's the gospel!

00:35:00: To life,

00:35:00: yeah sorry but.. Yeah that's what he does.

00:35:03: there's nothing that He can't bring to life and so The gift of The gift I'm really given in every challenge and in every kind of suffering.

00:35:17: I experience is to know the sweet like just the nearness of God.

00:35:23: there's something so sweet about it, And i think He you have To suffer to learn It and has to be unique too You?

00:35:33: I don't Know if I should say you Have to Suffer but I do Think Suffering and Death Is Part Of the resurrection story, right?

00:35:40: So it's not a surprise to me that in a lot of our lives we experience death and we experienced like really hard things.

00:35:48: but the good news for us as Christians is that that's not the end of the story.

00:35:52: It always will end in resurrection.

00:35:54: so I can have hope... maybe this is something i need to pray more into....I don't know what having an earthly father necessarily completely looks like, but I have hope that God will bring resurrection to it and bring life.

00:36:11: And he has already in men who've met at church Who love me so dearly?

00:36:18: And i could not have asked for more.

00:36:20: like Racky's dad Could cry.

00:36:24: He just

00:36:25: loves a father to

00:36:26: both of

00:36:27: us as we can never describe.

00:36:28: sure

00:36:30: I'll have to die after you.

00:36:32: Like, You're just gonna have to live until your like three hundred and this...you're going to be okay with it because-

00:36:36: We've literally told him he's just not allowed.

00:36:38: Yeah Not allowed But we will take that up of God.

00:36:41: We

00:36:42: buy him a Father's Day card every Father's day Because He has filled that role in our lives In huge way.

00:36:48: yeah

00:36:49: but then i was also thinking..I think the flip side is there.

00:36:52: There might people who don't have That community yet.

00:36:54: And the key things to still hold onto is God still brings resurrection, he still brings new life out of this death.

00:37:04: And so actually it might not look like someone coming into your life and being that father figure but that doesn't mean we can't limit does his things, right?

00:37:16: Like it could look

00:37:16: completely different.

00:37:17: The answer isn't necessarily a replacement all the time yet but is the satisfaction of knowing God

00:37:25: and

00:37:25: His presence

00:37:26: this week.

00:37:26: so

00:37:27: yeah there's resurrection in that

00:37:28: exactly.

00:37:29: I love that.

00:37:29: wow

00:37:31: i feel like for me.

00:37:32: Sean has been big marker of that.

00:37:35: I think every time Sean is wonderful and kind, and selfless he's a reminder of Christ.

00:37:41: but everytime Sean drives me nuts... And he doesn't get ME!

00:37:44: He doesn't care for me in the way i need him to.

00:37:47: it also points me to christ because im like you're better lord!

00:37:53: There are just lots of redemptive ways.

00:37:55: God shows us how he will take residence in your life and he's not leaving.

00:38:03: I'm

00:38:05: very inspired, very inspired by these sorts.

00:38:10: Let's

00:38:10: talk about that!

00:38:11: What is it?

00:38:12: I am spreading the church news guys announcement Racky's ring has been upgraded!

00:38:19: It's been triple graded!

00:38:20: Sanjay said you are

00:38:22: married when he didn't have a real job.

00:38:25: Now Sanjay has twenty five pounds.

00:38:27: Do you think

00:38:28: that when Sean is like the head of police

00:38:33: I guess who's going to pick it, me.

00:38:35: I'll say get that one for you.

00:38:37: Sanji!

00:38:38: Racky was just walking past and didn't see

00:38:40: her... Boom!

00:38:41: Yeah yeah yeah.

00:38:41: Just

00:38:41: there?

00:38:42: Birthday?!

00:38:43: Do you know what i've learned after thirteen years of marriage?

00:38:47: Jewelry is a good shell.

00:38:48: She

00:38:49: looks- have you not seen it?

00:38:50: Nooo It will see YOU.

00:38:52: That's weird..it will shine.

00:38:54: You will see

00:38:54: IT.

00:38:54: I'm so excited

00:39:00: I know!

00:39:00: That's what he said.

00:39:01: You know, that has taken a long time to get into that realisation... This is taking a long-time

00:39:06: to say for my...

00:39:07: A lot of bad presents.

00:39:08: I've bought a lot of bad presents.

00:39:10: So, Sean is not gift receiving person?

00:39:14: He doesn't like it and he really likes gifts.

00:39:16: And uh...he never told me that for the first four years we dated..and then told me That he threw away most of his gifts at him Because he just...like didn't need them.

00:39:24: Like i don't want to Wow!

00:39:25: He's like make-a-list by him on this list.

00:39:29: kind man

00:39:29: Wow!

00:39:31: Yeah....I think Racky or I are especially gift people.

00:39:35: She's very good buying gifts Very generous But I've been bad at gifts.

00:39:43: You know, like sometimes...

00:39:45: Three children is pretty good!

00:39:46: Yeah they're exactly.

00:39:47: but in terms of the we had agreement At Christmas.

00:39:53: let's not buy each other anything We don't need to do that.

00:39:56: and then she would buy me something What i have learned.

00:39:58: you don't take it seriously Do you know?

00:40:02: most men dont learn that?

00:40:04: Like...?

00:40:04: I feel a decade or so into getting there.