Doctor, Engineer, Disappointment

00:00:00: There's three options when you're going up and in your home.

00:00:01: One is a doctor, two as an engineer or a disappointment.

00:00:05: it felt like obligation rather than obedience And I felt for the first time of my life... ...I didn't have to pretend anymore!

00:00:12: I could work on IT job and earn fifty thousand pounds per year Or give them rest of their lives To whatever God has For the sake of building his kingdom.

00:00:20: What would make him more proud?

00:00:22: Mum Dad?

00:00:24: God has answered your prayer.

00:00:52: Thanks so much for coming and joining us on this.

00:00:55: Absolutely For those who don't know you, please tell us a little bit about Who You Are Aaron.

00:00:59: What do kind of what your life is about to give us an insight?

00:01:04: Yeah.

00:01:07: I'm Aaron Nygum based in Manchester where i live with my wife Desiree.

00:01:12: we've been in Manchester for about coming into two years so it's relatively new but feels home and fun to be there.

00:01:20: We're both pastors kids.

00:01:22: That's a whole different chapter.

00:01:24: Yeah, yeah that's the whole difference.

00:01:27: I

00:01:29: wish I could move on!

00:01:29: That's another podcast.

00:01:31: maybe in another day Most parts of the process can grow up in church and then variety of journeys end up leading us to what we're doing now.

00:01:38: so i work for A student mission movement In The UK called fusion.

00:01:42: Fusion is passionate about seeing students find hope Jesus And get plugged into our local Church.

00:01:47: all that We do as fusion.

00:01:49: We want to champion the local church, to be all in for students.

00:01:53: So I've been with Fusion for nine years... Oh man!

00:01:56: Yeah next April it'll be ten-

00:01:57: You're just realising how old you are?

00:01:59: Well i'm made to feel more and more.

00:02:01: The team gets younger.

00:02:02: It's true when

00:02:02: you have staff people that are younger than you

00:02:03: And then your knees crack

00:02:05: When you bend down.

00:02:09: That combination of the two of us is rough.

00:02:11: Yeah yeah yeah..when a teams running around Jumping from worship where they go ''I probably need to pace myself here'' Then thats telly They're going for it in worship, doing circles and jumping.

00:02:21: And running across an armchair.

00:02:22: Yeah.

00:02:22: When were you born?

00:02:22: It's like two thousand

00:02:25: seven.

00:02:25: The youth or the

00:02:30: student work

00:02:32: is

00:02:37: like nineteen and then they're like I don't want to play that game again

00:02:40: honestly on the fact there is its nineteen Like if someone say like nineteen eighty five or nineteen seventy And you don't even hear it's ninety two ninety

00:02:50: nine.

00:02:51: It

00:02:51: could be ninety-nine.

00:02:52: doesn't matter if its ninety days

00:02:53: Don't care

00:02:54: they don't care.

00:02:54: are

00:02:55: you in that?

00:02:55: You've born in the nineties.

00:02:56: I'm well and truly in the Nineties nineteen

00:02:59: ninety to okay, there we go still young.

00:03:02: Let's move on.

00:03:07: So your work infusion

00:03:08: yes

00:03:09: But what about kind of your story?

00:03:12: because obviously you grew up a kind of Here or elsewhere.

00:03:17: where did you go?

00:03:18: What was your story?

00:03:19: mix?

00:03:19: so I was born in the Middle East in Bahrain.

00:03:22: So Arab kid, I guess.

00:03:24: I don't know if I could claim that really you weren't given a citizenship?

00:03:27: Yeah No You were but we was still Indian passport.

00:03:29: You won't give an assistant and

00:03:31: your dad wasn't passed to there.

00:03:32: My Dad was.

00:03:32: no my mom or dad at the time We're working in medical.

00:03:35: so my mom's a nurse dads are radiographer.

00:03:37: pretty much lots of South Indian.

00:03:40: story Of migration to the UK is a pit stop in the Middle East somewhere.

00:03:45: So either Saudi Kuwait musket Oman Bahrain they've been somewhere in the middle east before Hopped across to UK or USA, Australia.

00:03:55: Yeah So that kind of was happening us a lot.

00:03:57: so my parents were working there's you know medical professionals.

00:04:02: And yeah me I was born.

00:04:03: they're my younger sister who is born in Bahrain?

00:04:05: So we were there for about eight nine years before My dad decided to pack him his career in medicine To pursue calling ministry against and so he left Me.

00:04:17: him and my sister left sisters left went back to India And so we were in India for three and a half years.

00:04:23: Okay, when my mom was still in borrowing.

00:04:26: So not disconnected family I guess but dad and the kids.

00:04:30: We grew up in In india.

00:04:32: Tamil Nadu is where i'm from right?

00:04:34: in The south of india.

00:04:35: and fun fact about Where i'm From i'm form place called kanya kumari which Is the southernmost tip Of india.

00:04:41: so the best way to describe to people is this if you imagine the map of indian put your hand Right at the bottom You're probably that's where.

00:04:46: okay That's home.

00:04:48: so we grew Up in india as well.

00:04:50: So went to school in India, which is comes with its joys and fun.

00:04:55: And then moved to the UK in two thousand three.

00:04:58: Okay so you're like a teenager right?

00:05:00: I was

00:05:00: eleven years old when

00:05:01: I moved.

00:05:01: Eleven when i moved to The U.K.

00:05:02: that wasn't going to be all together as family for first time.

00:05:05: What's it like For You To Move Here In Two Thousand Three And Be Like?

00:05:10: Ok I Live In The U K There Are Asians Here But

00:05:15: It'S

00:05:15: Quite Different

00:05:16: Absolutely.

00:05:17: Oh Yeah UK Was Different Back.

00:05:18: Then We Moved To Liverpool.

00:05:20: Liverpool was a different place back then.

00:05:23: So when we moved, the most vivid memory I have is like landing into Manchester airport and my mind being blown that it was seven or eight years old and still light outside?

00:05:39: How's this going on?

00:05:42: What's happening doesn't make sense!

00:05:45: Then came out quite cold in Chile like breathe out.

00:05:51: I could

00:05:51: see my breath and all of this was never experienced.

00:05:54: that in the Middle East or India, okay?

00:05:56: My mind is being blown as a kid standing outside.

00:05:58: so i remember that.

00:05:59: And then growing up it was surreal because you're like local back.

00:06:02: Then um Was hard at times.

00:06:06: uh In terms of growing up As an Asian kids You were racial slurs slurs shouted across the street Really kind Of having to look over your shoulder little bit when you walk down the road Um, but in the primary school.

00:06:21: So I joined like three months of primary school.

00:06:23: Yeah because I was going off basically.

00:06:26: so i did Like May June July of primary School right?

00:06:29: Did you have to do your sats?

00:06:31: no i didn't.

00:06:32: Life hack

00:06:33: and life also means You start year seven at bottom sets for everything.

00:06:37: Oh Not so much not

00:06:39: so much a life hack.

00:06:40: So when i started Year Seven i was bottom set.

00:06:43: And then You basically, I studied with my entire year group because every term or every year they were like we should move you up.

00:06:51: Because this is too easy for me.

00:06:53: So by the time i finished in Year eleven Big

00:06:54: flex though It was a big flex!

00:06:55: Real cracks to Rich's

00:06:56: story.

00:06:57: You're starting from bottom.

00:07:00: now I'm here

00:07:01: Really?

00:07:02: Top sets at the end of Year eleven.

00:07:03: I love this

00:07:04: point.

00:07:05: Thanks Wow.

00:07:06: Yeah so yeah your whole year group made friends everywhere

00:07:09: Literally.

00:07:10: That

00:07:11: not bad does it?

00:07:13: And

00:07:13: was that kind of your school years?

00:07:16: How, how was like?

00:07:17: did you have to navigate a lot of racism or in school.

00:07:22: Yeah A little bit because and then I think what was helpful is when i did the three months in primary school some Of those boys In that primary school were really good at looking after me in high School which felt Like a gift as like You know The only thing That I had going for Me Was I was the Only Bronco primary school.

00:07:42: And I was good at cricket,

00:07:43: okay?

00:07:43: That was that was my flex when we were playing cricket.

00:07:46: I was like boys

00:07:47: please stand back my

00:07:49: time don't worry played round this boy's Don't Worry you know any sports

00:07:55: with a bat

00:07:55: and the ball.

00:07:56: I mean i'm your man.

00:07:58: see that's

00:07:58: my downfall because it just requires hand-toe coordination.

00:08:02: right on I didn't have.

00:08:03: Well you've got one eye.

00:08:04: Well it's true and I find cricket sinfully boring, oh my gosh!

00:08:08: I know...I'm a disgrace to all Indians everywhere

00:08:12: but- To be honest i am actually with you on that really sorry er...and promise

00:08:16: erm... Are we done with?

00:08:17: I'm regretting my

00:08:19: choice.

00:08:19: You can leave

00:08:21: actually.

00:08:21: What is the

00:08:22: point?!

00:08:23: Wow

00:08:24: But maybe we need to hang out watch cricket and explain all of our nuances.

00:08:28: I think let's watch twenty-twenty and then we can work our way up to a good test match.

00:08:32: Okay,

00:08:32: yeah take something jurors.

00:08:34: Yeah That's

00:08:35: okay Let's do

00:08:36: that.

00:08:36: my husband is a cricket fan here And when England in India playing he's like it's a win-win for me.

00:08:41: So yeah,

00:08:47: so that was it basically like.

00:08:48: That was my thing.

00:08:49: So these boys looked after me when I moved to high school and as I grew As each year went on Basically the only way to say is all their kind of immigrant students became a group.

00:09:02: Okay

00:09:02: some all my friends towards eight nine well nine ten eleven Wow were all Africans Arabs

00:09:10: right

00:09:11: Eastern Europeans?

00:09:12: It was basically everyone who's not white band together have each other back.

00:09:16: We're the ones because at

00:09:17: that age is quite tribal, isn't it?

00:09:19: Absolutely.

00:09:19: You end up becoming part of a pack and you then need to

00:09:23: meet some people who belong too And have your back with.

00:09:25: so yeah So my all of my friends were mostly I've People from African backgrounds or Middle Eastern so we just kind of banded together.

00:09:34: But then if you got this kind of spiritual component as well cuz your dad's now Leading a church is he Is That What's going on?

00:09:40: what He

00:09:41: was until about two years ago

00:09:42: But at that age?

00:09:43: Yeah,

00:09:44: absolutely was a church leader.

00:09:45: And so you were then part of this South Asian very new kind of Church as well.

00:09:51: and who's coming to them?

00:09:52: what is the experience about for you?

00:09:53: Yes my dad obviously an associate pastor back in India.

00:09:57: So when we moved into UK it wasn't inconceivable to think he would begin to plant or gather.

00:10:04: We never spoke with him.

00:10:05: I don't remember being involved.

00:10:06: I wasn't asked if that was the plan.

00:10:09: But, you know... You didn't have a choice?

00:10:12: Exactly!

00:10:12: That's probably what to say.

00:10:14: but everywhere we went maybe in the first kind of six months To our local supermarket or anything.

00:10:20: If we saw another South Asian especially.

00:10:22: they were Tamil Indian Tamil and Sri Lankan Tamil Before you knew where there are around a house within it.

00:10:27: Okay

00:10:28: And that is way forward.

00:10:30: Hospitality Was the cultural connection.

00:10:32: Absolutely

00:10:33: hospitality.

00:10:35: It wasn't like a missional strategy, it was the missional.

00:10:38: Okay?

00:10:38: Love

00:10:39: that!

00:10:39: That's what I'm talking about.

00:10:40: Come around to the house for dinner... You'd

00:10:41: come home from school not knowing who the heck is gonna be in your

00:10:44: house Absolutely!

00:10:45: And you're up doing homework and go better.

00:10:48: get your room ready because people are coming to your house.

00:10:51: Why did they say

00:10:52: that?!

00:10:53: I would

00:10:53: love to know!

00:10:54: Please!

00:10:54: Why

00:10:54: didn't i have to clean my room for auntie to sit at my kitchen?

00:10:57: Thankyou

00:10:57: so much!

00:10:59: I agree.

00:11:00: Any aunties out there?

00:11:01: if you want to tell us please

00:11:02: let us know because I've got some trauma from childhood for when You needed to clean your room.

00:11:07: Yeah, cuz people are coming the

00:11:09: speed

00:11:10: It's just a case isn't it?

00:11:11: they come upstairs and expect that's.

00:11:14: um They kind of the shame

00:11:16: Preparing zombie apocalypse somewhere.

00:11:19: No because I was gathering hours.

00:11:21: I was ready.

00:11:22: I Was hustling yeah But no one ever came to our rooms.

00:11:26: They never did stay downstairs in the little room went to kitchen.

00:11:29: I mean, the fact that your family were that open and willing to have people.

00:11:33: And where those... People they would connect with?

00:11:37: Would there be Christians or...?

00:11:39: Some

00:11:40: But not

00:11:41: all?

00:11:41: Some Christian Not All Yeah.

00:11:42: So yeah They'd come around our house for dinner Before we know We're getting to know people.

00:11:46: Then before you knew it Saturday evenings A gathering was happening in a house.

00:11:49: You just read The Bible praying.

00:11:51: It became a service.

00:11:52: And then December of the first year We were outgrowing our living room on a Saturday evening was

00:12:00: packed.

00:12:02: It's too many people.

00:12:02: so then we hide the building.

00:12:03: and that's when church launched, it has been in church.

00:12:06: now they're still going to Liverpool for twenty odd years.

00:12:08: And is this still very South Asian focused?

00:12:10: Still

00:12:10: south asian so Tamil speaking church?

00:12:13: okay um...and over the years my dad led there seeing how many people come to North Africa Your

00:12:18: Dad got real vision there and heart for reaching out and growing something that God's put on his heart.

00:12:26: But what was I like for you as a kid, growing up inside a church?

00:12:30: That is very South Asian speaking Tamil... Like What Is It Like For You?

00:12:35: And now in England are trying to navigate your world.

00:12:38: Absolutely!

00:12:39: The duality of who am i was the wrestle throughout my teenage years As In My Identities.

00:12:46: Forming and Shaping in School Trying To Figure Out Who I Am I'm a scouser is an identity as like someone who's growing up in Liverpool.

00:12:55: Like, I need to support Liverpool and i'm sounding like you know my accents.

00:12:58: proper proper spouse?

00:13:00: That's all I am.

00:13:01: And then doing the Sunday...I'm like oh we're literally back in India!

00:13:05: We speak in Tamil.

00:13:06: it's you know.

00:13:07: and luckily when I moved..we grew up speaking Tamil.

00:13:10: so

00:13:11: You can do both.

00:13:12: I could do both

00:13:13: whereas for some of young people now church they couldn't speak Tamil or couldn't understand it much.

00:13:18: And so there was this like wrestle of, well I'm just here because my parents need to come and be in the stream.

00:13:22: So that was that tension growing up.

00:13:24: For me being at church...I've been saying this phrase about reflecting back on it recently.

00:13:31: It felt like obligation rather than obedience.

00:13:35: Like obligation to be a Church.

00:13:37: You're the fastest kid.

00:13:38: you better get ready three o'clock.

00:13:39: My dad regardless if my mom had her sorry or not he's gonna do it.

00:13:46: obligation.

00:13:47: We have to, we're serving.

00:13:48: it's a family thing.

00:13:49: you turn up get the sound you know.

00:13:50: speaker system ready yeah.

00:13:51: and I often joke like whether you had this skill set or not.

00:13:54: You were everything.

00:13:55: Yeah i'm the sound guy i'm The tech guy i'am the kid's pastor.

00:14:00: Everything in between It was everything.

00:14:02: So its obligation rather than obedience And it is duty.

00:14:05: Rather then delight.

00:14:06: Most of my teenage years church.

00:14:08: Was that

00:14:09: okay?

00:14:10: Im here because I Have To.

00:14:11: When did That shift for you?

00:14:12: when Did it become the delight of your heart to worship the lords.

00:14:16: So for me that was finally a university, so a fair while.

00:14:23: but I think and bear in mind up until that point still committed Christians still turning up and serving leading in different spaces...so if you see me i'm like all-in but reality behind the scenes.

00:14:39: I'm doing this because i have to, and in some sense the big thing is like my dad is the pastor.

00:14:44: I can't bring shame to The family Because of what?

00:14:46: I'm wrestling with.

00:14:47: yeah And that Like I Have To Present Myself as Having it Together.

00:14:51: Absolutely We are like the face Of The Church.

00:14:54: Yes

00:14:55: Is That a uniquely South Asian Christian Experience or is It not Uniquely?

00:14:59: but Or is it Especially a South Asian Christian?

00:15:03: I

00:15:03: think it's heightened.

00:15:04: Like, It's a heightened reality.

00:15:05: if you're a pasta kid and not from the south asian background You still have to face that tension.

00:15:10: But i want...I think its a heightened reality In our South Asian culture.

00:15:15: The wider church family feels like That Family.

00:15:20: We don't feel like im part of a Church in which Im coming to worship with other people.

00:15:24: This is family Whether we like or not are in each others business in another cultural context, she won't be or it will take time to cultivate that.

00:15:35: So growing up auntie's telling me off Like auntie's disciplining me was normal.

00:15:40: or comparing me to their kids and you know telling Their kids.

00:15:45: look how he is dressed in church.

00:15:46: Look at him bringing the Bible like an.

00:15:48: all of a sudden You're made to feel like this Example kid who everyone now?

00:15:53: You are the standard for everyone else To follow

00:15:55: which didn't help with relationships.

00:15:56: other young absolutely because Everyone's like.

00:15:58: well, look at Aaron exactly best.

00:16:00: yeah I must suck.

00:16:01: we hate him right unlike but they're like You're like, but that's not true.

00:16:05: Absolutely and the reality behind the scenes is Aaron isn't great.

00:16:08: Yeah.

00:16:09: Aaron struggling with who he is, struggling with his internal battles in identity crisis and whatever addiction it was navigating as a teenager.

00:16:17: Arendt going through all this Monday to Saturday?

00:16:19: But on Sunday is working...is master of the art of Pharisee.

00:16:24: Mastery Art of pretending!

00:16:26: Is there whitewash too much language is the best way to describe.

00:16:31: You had no other way of navigating that time except to go, I need to project this front.

00:16:36: And also you're a kid so there's that element even in the most sort-of healthy well set out and if your parents haven't got that kind expectation for you are still working out do i really believe is actually something about yes im going up inside What does it even mean?

00:16:58: So you've got that, haven't you.

00:16:59: Plus all these layers of expectation plus the community thing and we often talked about how a community in South Asian setting is.

00:17:08: many ways there's much blessing in that but there are lots of unspoken pressure and expectations isn't there which then informs Christian experience.

00:17:19: so like your environment doesn't go away for university

00:17:24: Because it was like I'm getting away from home.

00:17:28: Yeah, yeah

00:17:30: And my sister Was living in Wayfield the time her and a husband and my best friend wasn't leads.

00:17:36: Okay So i'm going to be with My Best Friend Gonna Be In Leeds But Still Living With My Sister so not fully Like wild The back you know.

00:17:45: so Away From Liverpool.

00:17:48: but that also gave me an experience To go okay?

00:17:49: I'm gonna leave and see what That Looks Like But Then Ended Up In A South Asian Church.

00:17:54: Anyway Because I was saying my sister, they went to a Malayalam church now.

00:17:58: Okay?

00:17:59: Which is another South Indian language.

00:18:01: so people from Kerala.

00:18:02: So like there's a big Church My best friend was the fastest kid off that church.

00:18:07: So we ended up going to our church.

00:18:08: okay, so my uni experience was again similar Interesting what I was going through at school.

00:18:15: It was just now a uni Monday.

00:18:16: this Saturday in uni There's a version of Aaron who's trying to figure out What it means to know be away from home and grow up as an adult and find himself navigating And he's got finances of himself.

00:18:25: He's getting to make his own decisions, how does he navigate that?

00:18:28: You know all of our challenges in university life and it is formative right like those kind of eight into twenty one or twenty.

00:18:33: three are the most formative years of a lifetime.

00:18:35: The Frenchman you made additions who you're making your value systems All being shaped and forged.

00:18:41: And so I'm going through that during the week.

00:18:43: then on Sunday Again model example perfect

00:18:47: Aaron friend of a pastor's kid.

00:18:48: exactly now part of the band playing drums is like he's serving week in week out.

00:18:53: Yeah, and you end up going through that.

00:18:54: So that was again might when I university The duality of my off who our Arnais which only heightened.

00:19:02: did you watch Hannah Montana?

00:19:03: And think we have more in common than you think sister.

00:19:07: I've never watched Hannah Montana.

00:19:09: No, me that it's just you.

00:19:11: So we don't keep trying to see each other.

00:19:14: listen

00:19:15: You tell us

00:19:16: she was a regular girl okay?

00:19:18: And then She was a pop star in secret

00:19:21: fair

00:19:21: and she took the wig off from them That you knew.

00:19:24: oh that wasn't.

00:19:29: I felt like I Was doing both But it was less glamorous because I wasn't rich or a pop star.

00:19:39: That's really appalling!

00:19:42: She felt like my soul sister when i was a kid, so this woman knows what i'm going through.

00:19:49: That's big.

00:19:51: You

00:19:53: didn't have that experience?

00:19:55: Why did I not look to Hannah Montana and go, there is my soul sister!

00:19:58: I resonate deeply.

00:19:59: Yeah okay

00:20:01: yeah.

00:20:01: That what we're trying to teach the

00:20:02: kids.

00:20:02: I'll watch Hannah Montana with you And then you can watch Cricket With Me.

00:20:06: Here We Go.

00:20:07: This feels

00:20:08: like a good family activity.

00:20:11: I'm sure

00:20:13: there's

00:20:15: one.

00:20:15: Yeah, this is great guys.

00:20:22: So university.

00:20:24: you said the last year of University something shifted.

00:20:27: what happened?

00:20:27: Yes

00:20:28: so in my final year at university...so i did a placement here.

00:20:32: okay What did you study?

00:20:34: good question um networking.

00:20:37: so it basically was this I often say the joke is there's two options when you're growing up in Indian home, i've now added a third one.

00:20:44: There are three option to go and up an India Home.

00:20:46: One Is A Doctor Two As An Engineer Or A Disappointment.

00:20:50: Oh, which did you pick?

00:20:52: Disappointment.

00:20:53: So here we are...

00:20:55: That's not that far off of an Asian expectation.

00:20:58: and

00:20:58: then what I did in my final year is the disappointment.

00:21:00: so

00:21:01: some people have not done The Uni thing.

00:21:03: yeah And it'd been a disappointment You know.

00:21:04: Yeah,

00:21:05: straight away

00:21:05: Of course parents knew from the start right

00:21:07: exactly gave

00:21:08: your parents false hope

00:21:09: for five years at university.

00:21:12: I meant i'm fully in for this IT thing.

00:21:14: um so yeah Did a placement near London Okay.

00:21:16: So, IT was the plan.

00:21:18: I'm not doing ministry at this point i'm going yeah church ministry no for me Yeah!

00:21:21: I've got like growing up had prophetic words on my life and you know things spoken over me Like You're gonna be in a got school dude for this.

00:21:29: Yeah great I was one of three after my elder sister.

00:21:33: For seven years My parents didn't have kids And when they prayed They prayed first time Until When I Was Born From The moment I was born Your an answer to prayer?

00:21:41: Like the Prayer Of Hannah We dedicated you To God.

00:21:45: Exactly right You're you'll.

00:21:46: we've given you to him when you grow up there and I'm like, yeah great.

00:21:49: When i got the university that's a last thing im doing.

00:21:52: I have seen what church ministry is ,Ive see more my dad than other stuff.

00:21:55: thats not for me thankyou.

00:21:57: Im gonna work make some money.

00:21:59: .When ive old then ill get time on this side.

00:22:01: Im might help out with church.

00:22:06: I was like set.

00:22:07: so study to be network engineer.

00:22:09: love networking came naturally to me really good at it had worked job in a Cisco partner company London.

00:22:15: They loved me, got a promotion in a placement year.

00:22:18: Offered me the job.

00:22:19: they said go finish your family and come back.

00:22:21: we've got you will love you.

00:22:22: We'll do your qualification on CCNA CTI.

00:22:24: all these are kind of networking qualifications.

00:22:25: Will put you through them like we love you.

00:22:27: Comeback.

00:22:28: So On paper it's all set.

00:22:30: I go back to leads from my family university in twenty fourteen And October twenty fourteen In my friend's house Friend Eben who at that time was doing ministry...we know him.

00:22:42: A buncha guys hung out so he wasn't Retreat weekend or it wasn't anything.

00:22:47: It was just the hangout Just chilling.

00:22:50: I took my Xbox we ordered food We played FIFA, we robed around.

00:22:54: there's no agenda.

00:22:55: It Was just that.

00:22:57: and Iran.

00:22:58: like in The evening?

00:22:59: We start chatting about God And faith and what he meant to be.

00:23:03: men In from all five of us for South Asian background one was African.

00:23:08: i'm just talking About what it meant To grow up with our faith and wrestling With this and people all of a sudden I'm not talking about like, well i struggle with my addiction to pornography.

00:23:15: With drugs ,with alcohol and the rest And im sitting there going.

00:23:20: oh

00:23:20: my god You've never had conversation like this?

00:23:22: You said it!

00:23:23: you

00:23:24: named out loud Like.

00:23:26: I can't believe that you have said it To

00:23:27: other south asians.

00:23:28: Men!

00:23:29: Other South Asian guys.

00:23:31: your age...you've said it..and for first time in life....I didn't have to pretend anymore.

00:23:39: That night could in some spiritual sense go, don't need to be perfect iron here.

00:23:46: And probably the first time I acknowledged all this stuff that was resting with sin and I was living an addiction of my life.

00:23:52: Some other stuff shaped where i grew up That night.

00:23:57: without making it sound super-spiritual but It felt like God is In The Room Like just around midnight or someone picked up a guitar started worshiping.

00:24:10: this cloud filled ebbs living room and I just remember weeping on the living room floor of his house Just having in count as something you've got.

00:24:19: And if i'll God say, I love You?

00:24:21: And again have grown up.

00:24:21: I know there's like god loves us yet He's loved.

00:24:24: but no he was like No, no iron.

00:24:26: I see all a bit and I love

00:24:28: you kind of knew it here.

00:24:29: yeah Yeah

00:24:32: It was just like somebody happened that night and We were In That Place Like Till till six a.m.. In the morning, huh?

00:24:40: And all of us were having deep encounters with the Lord.

00:24:43: for me It was the day that changed my life.

00:24:45: like that night I Felt love got in a way That he became mine.

00:24:50: it was My faith my Jesus.

00:24:53: this is not just something on growing up where there's like a knowledge thing.

00:24:56: This is now Relational.

00:24:58: He's close and he's here.

00:25:00: and then The second thing Is i Just had his vision Of young people walking out of church and I wept Like Like I had lost someone and it just broke my heart to see them walking away from God.

00:25:14: And that night something happened in me around this burden, a glimpse of God's heart for seeing young people walk away from

00:25:19: faith.".

00:25:19: It was like... People are grown up with South Asian friends who were Christians growing up but not Christians now?

00:25:25: I could see their faces as they weren't going on, I'm not coming to church anymore!

00:25:28: That was weeping…and that night i basically woke up the next day if almost felt at THAT instant..I lost interest in IT in money, career and that job.

00:25:39: I didn't want the world

00:25:40: anymore.".

00:25:41: And basically like...I don't know what this means to me but surely it is for me!

00:25:47: So my final year of university was discerning....I think i need say yes to an adventure with Jesus.

00:25:55: God's calling me full time.

00:25:56: Whatever that mean right?

00:25:57: Like full-time But just needed a yes to adventure with jesus.

00:26:01: And so weighing up well minded friends Christians were Just, just finish your degree.

00:26:12: And the phrase they said which again well-meaning was at least you'll have something to fall back on and I can understand why this is it.

00:26:21: i'm not fully get what would say

00:26:23: yeah there's some practical wisdom

00:26:25: absolutely like do part time job in the side of ministry.

00:26:30: so I remember sitting with them.

00:26:31: something didn't feel right for me.

00:26:34: So March April twenty fifteen last few months in my family of university, do the exam.

00:26:40: Do my final dissertation.

00:26:41: I'm

00:26:41: done.".

00:26:42: I remember God speaking to me from Second Kings when Elijah calls Elisha and so he walks up to Elishah and God tells him this is a man He puts a cloak on Him And then Elijah walks off like...I've done my bit!

00:26:54: And Elishas responses go okay i am coming but to kill his ox To break the tools that he was working the ground with give it as Offering to the people in the land and go back

00:27:04: up plan.

00:27:05: See you guys I'm off, I'm not coming back to doing this job.

00:27:08: i'm all into disinvitation from Whatever Elijah needs now?

00:27:13: I am as bad carrier for the rest of my life.

00:27:14: doesn't matter how difficult This is I'm playing this role I'm Not Coming Back To This And I just remember God Going.

00:27:20: Would You Follow Me Without A safety net?

00:27:21: Wow!

00:27:24: So I went.

00:27:26: I Am.

00:27:27: so I left uni In My Finally Of University After five years of being in university.

00:27:34: Very bad Indian, right?

00:27:35: Absolutely not honestly and I had people say you are stupid for the decision made like it's.

00:27:44: someone said You've wasted taxpayers money Like an add.

00:27:48: someone says to me do know how many People In India would die For your position To study in a prestigious UK University?

00:27:55: you thrown It away.

00:27:56: yeah.

00:27:57: And so i have to wrestle with all that.

00:27:59: Honestly i had to wrestle With

00:28:01: A whole new identity crisis.

00:28:03: Yeah, in a whole different level!

00:28:05: But for you it was this obedience thing?

00:28:07: Absolutely It's just.

00:28:08: God has said that I want to follow.

00:28:09: Like

00:28:10: all.

00:28:10: my life is an obligation.

00:28:11: Here's the moment where it became obedient.

00:28:14: You are calling me and i'm coming And im gonna come without a degree.

00:28:18: Im going to come with out of safety and have a job to fall back on.

00:28:21: I am going to trust your finances.

00:28:24: If u call me then you will provide.

00:28:25: But im in.

00:28:26: And I remember having to navigate some of the tough conversations my mom and dad, like... My Dad was disappointed.

00:28:33: Disappointed is a good way of summing up maybe three weeks of intense frustration in the house.

00:28:41: They were angry they were upset.

00:28:42: they didn't understand why i'd drop out or leave

00:28:46: Even though they longed for you.

00:28:47: go into ministry

00:28:48: Right.

00:28:49: So I remember..I remember my dad saying a comment.

00:28:54: It broke me what he said.

00:28:56: And I remember walking into my room and just like, I locked the door and sat in my bed.

00:29:02: God if you call me this is... You've got to figure it out because i can't do this!

00:29:09: My yes-to-you can be filled with a narrative of how you failed or messed up.

00:29:13: How are we going to survive?

00:29:16: How will your family live?

00:29:18: Think about everything that's happened over two months.

00:29:21: But after praying for a little bit Just look to them when I could work an IT job and earn fifty thousand pounds a year or I give the rest of my life To whatever God has for the sake of building his kingdom.

00:29:36: What would make you more proud?

00:29:41: And Without thinking twice they went we wanted it.

00:29:46: We want you do all that god has fee mm-hmm, and then i looked at them said mom dad God is answered your prayer.

00:29:54: Yeah, it's good.

00:29:55: God has answered your prayers.

00:29:57: Your prayer was that I would be used for God.

00:30:00: This is how it's happening, God has answered

00:30:04: your

00:30:05: prayer.".

00:30:09: Wow!

00:30:24: And now they are the biggest.

00:30:30: I couldn't make my parents proud by becoming a graduate who had a high paying job and supports them, it looks after financially like lots of my friends and peers do but i hope to think that every time they see me traveling somewhere speaking some way building God's kingdom in this small on the big where you sit there We're proud of who is.

00:30:51: it's great isn't?

00:30:52: and I guess what you also saying?

00:30:53: Is the key is obedience.

00:30:56: And in your life, maybe an hour because we all work in ministry into ways that means It's kind of like an obvious Thing once you want to down the road a little bit.

00:31:06: You going well.

00:31:07: this is what that life looks like.

00:31:08: yes But obviously for others Their obedience is to do the degree and do the thing and actually that Also builds God's kingdom but its it seems to be less spiritual for some reason.

00:31:20: I have this wrestle all the time with different ones, you know is realizing that actually All of things God's called us to.

00:31:25: The key Is not necessarily You know ditching a job and going in.

00:31:29: you know He was doing what he called you do isn't it?

00:31:32: That's right.

00:31:33: And that's What you were discovering and being able To speak to them about which is very powerful, you Know especially from a cultural perspective because you've got This South Asian Christian upbringing but In and amongst mostly south asian friends.

00:31:46: I think that's quite fascinating.

00:31:47: what you said, like the most spiritually charged moment of your life was vulnerable conversation with other guys.

00:31:56: In

00:31:57: community

00:31:58: and in willingness to open yourselves up for it?

00:32:02: Like...

00:32:03: And getting rid of the pretend!

00:32:05: Isn't there something amazing about confessing our sins one another as the Bible says and allowing the Holy Spirit.

00:32:14: Many of us maybe are waiting for some super spiritual moment at a conference, in worship.

00:32:19: I don't know... In some sort of retreat or whatever and all those things God can do.

00:32:24: but you did something quite practical there Maybe quite unintentional But it required someone to go first.

00:32:31: And in that environment Because i'm just thinking people who might be listening this That's the thing Like maybe there were so many Who have been waiting For god To speak.

00:32:42: The big thing But this is friends talk like just get you some friends that you can be real with.

00:32:49: Yeah, and in a culture in which vulnerability Is hard?

00:32:53: Yep.

00:32:53: Hard to come by.

00:32:54: yeah because we're hardwired To not be vulnerable

00:32:57: Because of like honor shame

00:32:59: on ashamed.

00:33:00: so

00:33:00: we growing up.

00:33:02: No outside of this Bricked wall house no one else knows our business.

00:33:09: Pain mess shame fight joy doesn't matter what it is It stays within.

00:33:14: So you, I mean kids have grown up.

00:33:17: It's part of what i've seen growing up.

00:33:19: I've walked with other young people in this where parents during the week families not okay but on a Sunday we put on this example picture and again it.

00:33:33: so Vulnerability is hard, it's as hard-wired to not be.

00:33:38: We're hard wired and not share because we don't want to bring shame on the family will bring dispute with a family.

00:33:43: what would they say?

00:33:44: And that often... What will THEY think if they heard this?

00:33:47: What will they say when found out?

00:33:49: So why are you not sharing our stuff?

00:33:51: Because its' not like we dont wanna do.. If I say this What is now your opinion of me and my family?

00:33:58: Or will know you think of me.

00:33:59: And the gift of Christian community or community that leads to true healing freedom, I thing for me massively Is confession.

00:34:09: Yeah!

00:34:09: And i think Confession is something For us in this time In this generation.

00:34:13: I've talked with many guys as well.

00:34:15: The power Of Confession.

00:34:16: When it talks about like Confess your sins one another So That You Could Be Healed I'm Like Oh No Don't Just Confess You are free.

00:34:25: No, so that you could be made

00:34:26: whole

00:34:27: confession is out So that you would be made hole and healed from what your going through?

00:34:32: Yeah The power of confession isn't just to go.

00:34:33: well I brought something into the light which yes number one but number two it's so That you can be made hold.

00:34:38: And i would say in that moment when These other guys started naming stuff For the first time In my life i could Go i don't need To pretend and then the joy has been in the past kind Of ten years.

00:34:49: if leadership and discipleship Is My vulnerability as allowed many others to now be free and whole, and healed.

00:34:59: And so I know guys... So when i'm talking about my addiction in journey of pornography being set free from that as a teenager.. ..and then name it talk about it publicly!

00:35:07: Often in South Asian context maybe Tamil church.

00:35:10: we don't say quite bluntly there are addictions.

00:35:13: you might be nervous Like Vegas and I'm like no, but as i watch spawned like during the week And I was addicted to pornography do has a teenager.

00:35:23: And I would do this doing the weekend Sunday?

00:35:25: I was playing in church.

00:35:26: So hey, I want tell you it's real It's possible.

00:35:28: yeah right and before You know what II am sitting across worship leaders Ministry Leaders Families who are going on struggling with us Yeah, and have never been able talk about it.

00:35:41: But its vulnerability and confession

00:35:43: hate.

00:35:43: when people called me vulnerable they because it felt like a, uh...like an insult.

00:35:49: Like you're.

00:35:50: so um I have someone one of some who i work with calls me tender hearted okay and i hate

00:35:57: it!

00:35:57: Okay?

00:35:57: I hate it cuz i'm like.

00:35:58: why are y-you calling me

00:35:59: weak?!

00:36:00: Okay!

00:36:00: That's what they call

00:36:01: me.

00:36:01: we can't realize she actually isn't.

00:36:03: no she's like You wear your heart on your sleeve.

00:36:05: yeah Because that other people get to do the same beautiful.

00:36:07: And I think I'm like huh maybe vulnerable and tenderhearted is not Terrible.

00:36:14: Yeah, maybe vulnerable and tenderhearted allows things to grow where There has been.

00:36:18: well And I think being able to be Transparent because there's always a line of these thing.

00:36:23: as a friend of mine who is a pastor in the church?

00:36:26: He often says you know Because people want Vulnerable leaders i think but he's also like You all say don't want me just to be gushing about everything But I do Think that The vision Of having A Vulnerables transparent Kind leading or whatever it might even if you're not a leader, just being that culture within your community.

00:36:48: Even in your own family is something that's very transformative and probably whilst I think all human beings probably struggle with this to some degree South Asian culture set up to kind of protect itself And maybe...I don't know about you because actually many ways You've had much more experience in south asian churches than perhaps we have but like I don't know if you've seen that particular area play out where... You do then get younger people growing up inside a church, which is quite traditional in South Asia.

00:37:22: And we think it might be the language that's the barrier.

00:37:26: or maybe they haven't got brilliant youth programme.

00:37:31: but really its these kind of slightly under-the surface cultural values that are kind of holding people from really experiencing the gospel, absolutely.

00:37:42: And knowing the Gospel and sometimes it is a miss... It's a lack of actually even explaining in the Gospel definitely come across like that.

00:37:49: but perhaps even where that has been done these things this kind of culture thing hold everything?

00:37:54: Is that correct?

00:37:56: Absolutely!

00:37:57: I think for me when i was growing up there were things you'd seen on the platform then your resting with stuff in your own life.

00:38:08: And the disconnect between two was huge, okay?

00:38:11: It wasn't accessible to go.

00:38:13: I don't know how far it can go from where i am now To what you were talking about on stage like inconceivable

00:38:18: right.

00:38:19: there isn't a pathway.

00:38:20: so some of this stuff we're talking about is and sometimes I remember kind of towards my twenties just seeing our ability to engage with the wider church in the UK group for South Asian churches.

00:38:33: Comparison begins to come and you go, well I'm watching this person online.

00:38:36: who's preaching look at their church experience.

00:38:38: And so some of that stuff.

00:38:39: your saying worship is better there than here?

00:38:42: That person preaches and it's dynamic.

00:38:44: in my pastures half broken English isn't great.

00:38:47: all other stuff but the reality we might name as reasons why am not where I am.

00:38:52: But The Reality Is It's Stuff.

00:38:54: Like You Said i would call them the formative discipleship pathways.

00:38:58: I'm missing.

00:39:00: So when we address that, would that be what is your discipleship journey?

00:39:04: Who was journeying with you?

00:39:06: who was helping you wrestle the big questions You have in faith like can you bring that to someone?

00:39:11: Can you doubt?

00:39:13: and in space And given space Doubting, wrestling and ask questions.

00:39:18: But that in that culture and the context is like a hit to pride isn't it?

00:39:22: Absolutely!

00:39:23: And Pride might be something we haven't talked much about yet but my experience particularly with Northern Japan over years where we've led many churches around the country... We have seen that up close and personal.

00:39:34: you know lots of comparison competition whether this choir or pastor Putting leaders on a pedestal, which we see in the global church is terrible idea anyway.

00:39:50: But it's dangerous

00:39:51: because actually like as young person who came to North

00:39:53: Japan Yeah Like

00:39:54: I had never known leaders too To say I'm a mess Like in my brain, Christian leaders were these like amazing people that never messed up and not weak.

00:40:06: And they had it together until I came to Nojavan and leaders from the front will be like yeah i'm a sinner completely suck when you're not worthy of being here.

00:40:15: so I am

00:40:16: very much informed about leadership

00:40:19: but your journey is interesting because you didn't grow up in Asian-christian churches as you come from hindi background.

00:40:23: no

00:40:24: and hindu leaders are impenetrable, bulletproof.

00:40:29: Like these

00:40:29: were the peak of the peak and so I think that's what all leadership is like.

00:40:33: when you look at leadership in even school your headteacher was like The big boss right?

00:40:38: There are these leaders.

00:40:39: genuinely as i have journeyed over the last few years What does it look to be a leader?

00:40:44: All those examples this, like get it together.

00:40:49: Be everything to everyone all the time and I have felt the crushing weight of that because i'm like...I can't!

00:40:56: Right?

00:40:56: I can't be everything to every one All The Time.. I Can Barely Keep My Own Life

00:40:59: Together!!

00:41:00: I've got like six weeks of laundry To Do but I gotta go do This Conference or I Gotta You Know And Actually I Have Been Really Humbled Like By Your Leadership and by the leadership Of Others That I'm like oh you have stood up at the front and said hey guys my house was chaos when I left this morning, everything was a mess.

00:41:20: Um i remember someone at our church preaching and they were like yeah I had to fight with my wife this morning and I thought that is the most... immediately all my guards went down but I just instantly was like oh we're just two sinners conversing with each other in the presence of God unlike so it's really beautiful thing.

00:41:40: absolutely It's something for some.

00:41:41: maybe the South Asian church, there's this desire to be a good example.

00:41:47: You know I'm being as charitable as it can here but like you need To Be A Good Example and lead with a level of integrity which i think is honourable But that Can sort Of Get Out of Hand To Some Degree And There'S No Space For Progress.

00:42:05: Yeah That Tension Has Always Been There And I Think To Give Credit Where It Is To Do living in a time where that's changing.

00:42:13: I would say the last five years, there was a bit of shift and context In the UK because i think leaders are waking up to The reality Of the need To invest in And create pathways for discipleship For young people they're realizing

00:42:26: if They don't dead.

00:42:28: absolutely yeah

00:42:29: Yeah?

00:42:30: So when I Was A Teenager in a church and passionate and zealous and it was like right I Think I could be all in forgot.

00:42:37: You had leaders who didn't make space, didn't walk out.

00:42:40: Didn't help you figure it out and they lost an entire generation Who have gone on to do all this other stuff.

00:42:48: And then churches wake up To see the reality kind of dynamic thing Of like people in front The disconnect.

00:42:54: I have this vivid memory.

00:42:57: A pastor came from India.

00:42:59: He was doing a tour of UK.

00:43:01: They come preaching All over the UK House meeting, house church.

00:43:06: And he's just stood in front and said with such conviction is like you know what?

00:43:11: For the sake of The Gospel.

00:43:12: I've been traveling now for nearly three months.

00:43:15: i'm not seeing my wife My kids and this Is What it looks Like.

00:43:19: and i remember sitting there Going.

00:43:22: i don't Know if that'S how i want to model my leadership Of life.

00:43:26: He saw That as

00:43:27: a big badge

00:43:28: of honor.

00:43:29: yeah

00:43:29: and i understand they're going.

00:43:30: If i was your son i'm blaming god for taking that away.

00:43:35: And I've sat with pastors kids who have gone, yeah my dad is a pastor to the church but he's not at home.

00:43:42: So you see it disconnect up close and personal.

00:43:45: so over these years leaders are waking Now, and for young people growing up in church the comparison gaming increases.

00:43:54: because now you go I'm going to a worship night In this city.

00:43:57: This Church And isn't that amazing?

00:44:00: Look how it feels!

00:44:01: And i come To my church on a Sunday... ...and I am struggling with cultural wrestling That have to navigate.

00:44:06: How do hold attention of me too?

00:44:08: Because its..in some sense Im not saying Its easy but The quicker option quick fix is to go.

00:44:13: well im leaving And Im gonna enjoy there.

00:44:17: And many have done that, some of them did for the right reasons and it's just right they've left.

00:44:21: But I'm looking at some of these in this nation now as young guys who are serving in South Asian Indian churches And it's a church of forty fifties uncles and auntie, there's tensions under his wrestles.

00:44:32: There's cultural nuances but they're going.

00:44:34: I'm committing to put my foot down here in serving an I'm being...I'm gonna be part the change so that My little brother when he grows up His experience at Church will look different than what i went through.

00:44:43: Yeah!

00:44:44: That's

00:44:44: huge and I think something very powerful we said about The courage Of staying?

00:44:51: Yes You know because We've we applaud the courage of going.

00:44:58: And wherever that might be, you know in obedience and as I say for some people thats the path.

00:45:05: but there is a huge courage.

00:45:07: if you've come to know Christ really know him love him he's placed into context.

00:45:12: environment.

00:45:13: If you leave...and could have been You Could Have Been A Light Amongst Your Own Generation.

00:45:20: I'm not saying you have to lead up front, but you would become an influence at least.

00:45:24: What kind of difference could that make?

00:45:25: There are examples as we say of friends or else who're doing it and because they do God is doing something in them.

00:45:33: It isn't easy and often quite isolated And

00:45:36: probably doesn't feel massive.

00:45:38: No especially when looking on social media one looks a lot better over there.

00:45:42: Absolutely your

00:45:44: church has like fifty people.

00:45:48: We all really know each other, but I'm sure it can feel easy to look at a different church and think how do they have hundred fifty people?

00:45:55: And oh because we've got one hundred fifty.

00:45:57: Not everyone has to be on team every week But like when you go to a small church Like everybody does everything.

00:46:02: I am a direct product of like, fifty people who just did life together and they were like okay we're gonna wrestle with whatever this looks like.

00:46:14: And...we are going to invest!

00:46:16: And he showed up at my house every Tuesday and had dinner with me and asked me if i would study with them.

00:46:25: But showed up every Tuesday and was like, I'm gonna be in your life whether you want me to or not.

00:46:30: And wriggled their way in?

00:46:32: And i'm a direct result of that discipleship investment on people That made space for Me To ask questions make Space For me to Like at least once week.

00:46:41: have A crisis about Whether I should Be still be Hindu Or Not Like.

00:46:44: Am I doing the wrong thing?

00:46:45: What am I Doing?

00:46:46: Well

00:46:47: it's Gonna say People who come from other faith backgrounds as well.

00:46:50: The amount Of close Community Spaced like in perhaps larger, especially more westernized churches that don't necessarily always understand these nuances.

00:47:00: And I was gonna ask you about that because You must come across it.

00:47:03: but those who are struggling like need environments where people will actually get the cultural nuance and can walk with them.

00:47:09: so if they're Asian traditional asian church is wrestling with pride and honor and shame?

00:47:13: Then you got The Western Church which doesn't have those issues But Is doing something else.

00:47:19: Where do These People go?

00:47:20: What happens?

00:47:21: That's

00:47:21: the gift of the dice for a church In the UK.

00:47:24: That is the gift and often like you said, we can miss.

00:47:27: Like I'm thinking about um The church house part of in London Malayalam Church prayer garden like was plugged in there Was like serving youth Serving in playing drums.

00:47:35: You know they might be doing it?

00:47:37: The team Is six people who did everything every week.

00:47:40: so its that small church.

00:47:43: But i've got vivid memories Of when the church absolutely turned up And stood and gave.

00:47:52: It was transformational for people because of it, I'm thinking in East Ham where the church was.

00:47:58: east London massive South Asian community.

00:48:00: but also London itself is a whole different ball game.

00:48:03: But in East ham, East London...I remember when international students would come.

00:48:07: There's one vivid story on my head Where this international student had come.

00:48:11: He wasn't Christian.

00:48:12: he was exploring faith Christian background family is, but he wasn't massively involved in church.

00:48:18: But when you'd come um wanted to find a Malayalam community and so somehow got connected to our church leader.

00:48:25: And so He was like yeah Yeah we'll pick you up You know.

00:48:27: So I drove To pick him Up from wherever he Was born into Church that Sunday?

00:48:31: He's only been In the UK for about A week No bear in mind he's trying to Is navigating everything That you have to navigate When you've just Come Into it new whole New Country.

00:48:40: And that Sunday something beautiful happened.

00:48:42: That's I'll never forget one of the aunties in The Church and it wasn't like.

00:48:45: this is what we do.

00:48:46: It's our program, it was not.

00:48:48: after church took him said come with me Took him on the East Ham High Street went to a grocery Indian grocery store bought him everything he will need for basic staples in the house, took him to the end to Primark or whatever shop it was there.

00:49:03: Bought him like a winter jacket scarf gloves Whatever you needed and I brought her back.

00:49:07: And as I was loading into my car because i'm gonna drop them up?

00:49:19: And I go, that's the gift of a dice for church.

00:49:22: The gift of this stranger being welcomed into family is so naturally wired within our culture.

00:49:30: That's why that church becomes a gift.

00:49:32: Yes we are struggling with lots and stuff but i've also heard and Lots of churches are working actively at becoming intercultural, intergenerational.

00:49:42: and how do we love ourselves?

00:49:43: It's an age-old discipleship question.

00:49:45: We all ask... And it is an ongoing journey but I know of people who walked into your kind of white church in the city or you know a church that isn't there context and have walked out not having had a single conversation.

00:50:01: they've sat and then walked up just not felt welcomed.

00:50:05: I don't

00:50:07: know how often we need to, even with infusion.

00:50:11: i have like talk about intercultural mission and How do you help people this?

00:50:14: There are ten steps in front of someone from a diaspora background that they Have to overcome when They have to walk into A predominantly white room.

00:50:23: That they Don't have To Do When They go Into South Asian Diasforia And that's why it becomes easy.

00:50:29: In my mind, I need to go.

00:50:30: how do i?

00:50:31: Do I make sure say this right pronounce this right?

00:50:33: What do we need to do the way?

00:50:34: I don't want me don't wanna offend anyone.

00:50:36: there are ten different things as standards hurdles in front of Me in order for me to arrive To your room than someone else That I Don't have to navigate.

00:50:44: when they walk into a room There's a dice for a space

00:50:46: also love but that so blessing two people who aren't salvation too.

00:50:49: Yes like My English friends whenever They've come to church or Like Have been looking For A Church I'm like.

00:50:54: well I'll tell you This yeah about fifty different people will say hello to you.

00:50:59: It might feel overwhelming, but someone would probably invite.

00:51:05: Oh, this is what biblical hospitality looks like and when it looks to welcome in a stranger.

00:51:15: And you are part of my home now!

00:51:19: I love that can be gift not just to South Asians but everyone.

00:51:26: There's loads of things we're navigating really hard.

00:51:31: we'd sought out as South Asians but there's also some really wonderful things

00:51:35: that

00:51:36: are such a gift to the gospel and to the widening of his kingdom.

00:51:41: Yeah, I'm struck that we can often... As South Asians in the UK question whether you're part of a South Asian church or part of an intercultural-multiculturalist whatever.

00:51:55: There is a gift in you being South Asian in this nation That We Can Often Forget You, you're hardwired and your culture are bringing what you have.

00:52:02: Often we can look at my South Asian culture as a hindrance to my faith.

00:52:05: I think there's lots of yourself in the culture that is a gift to your Christian faith.

00:52:10: That if we can understand how we are wired And how we can use that becomes a missional gift.

00:52:15: Absolutely because

00:52:16: I'm thinking about like The times We've seen shared At the power Of A diverse table and what it speaks in the most difficult, conflict-filled divisive time.

00:52:36: A table which every nation type finds a place that belongs.

00:52:40: In itself is a radical message of The Gospel.

00:52:43: Your church where you have South Asian black white... Asian can all sit and be family, that church becomes a declaration without words even being spoken from the front of power in the gospel.

00:52:57: So I'm going.

00:52:58: no you being South asian isn't a challenge it is an hindrance to your faith It's gift but its understanding.

00:53:06: who are so for me Being in a movement like fusion And when i joined was only person color on team?

00:53:13: Who is Aaron?

00:53:15: Do need more.

00:53:16: the rest of these guys who are polished, you know they've got their faith figured out.

00:53:20: And often as in your twenties or thirties being a Christian leader You have to navigate imposter syndrome and after navigate do I need to assimilate?

00:53:28: Do i need to become...I need to be less Aaron.

00:53:30: Who's this passionate zeal like filled guy who is a bit loud and passionate maybe speaks a little too loud compared To everyone else whose very Anglican and proper..and has to navigate!

00:53:40: So part of me- I remember those scenes In my life were going ''i need to calm down'' Like, I shouldn't be as like... And

00:53:46: you don't want to feel like-I think i often feel this in a young life world.

00:53:49: I don't wanna feel the Asian girl that always brings up Asian people problems?

00:53:53: Yes!

00:53:54: Like, constantly being like.

00:53:55: hey guys we should think about how Asians might feel or We should

00:53:58: think of it and

00:54:00: hate it because I'm like.. You all think oh well she's just brown.

00:54:04: so thats why she is saying these things.

00:54:06: but

00:54:08: I think the imposter syndrome thing is a real thing.

00:54:11: It's probably worth us saying it, you know three Asian young-ish leaders... We'll still hang out with them!

00:54:20: Yeah exactly but yeah i get to be in The Room But actually To Be In The Room With Others Who You Know Similar Christian Journey Similar Age Whatever There Is Something Isn't There That that hovers over and maybe others don't know.

00:54:37: Maybe, maybe you don't recognize the actually is quite hard to be relaxed or feel like you belong in an environment even if we've been doing it for years.

00:54:46: people are well meaning right?

00:54:48: Absolutely they're not trying to make you feel weird but just feeling this.

00:54:55: yeah sometimes I think unintentionally bring out.

00:55:02: It's not racism, but it's you know there is tokenism biases and so I think awareness of that for other Christian leaders is really important because otherwise those who actually have entered into these spaces forever reason are holding their kind cultural community in the hand need to be thought more carefully.

00:55:27: perhaps at times maybe there's a little bit more learning to be done.

00:55:32: Because I guess when you're on this side of the coin, your always learning aren't?

00:55:37: When you are cross-cultural in yourself yes um You'll learn all these things and others may not having to do that no time And they don't know their not having exactly.

00:55:46: so as i suppose thats where is such an unique conversation?

00:55:49: absolutely yeah.

00:55:52: The challenge at times like how then Fully be me in a space and which I'm having to do all of this Simulating climatizing understanding to make sure.

00:56:03: And then there comes the point when you go actually the gift.

00:56:05: I am so for me infusion ago, I remember realizing The gift I am infusion is that I am fully iron not That I need to become more like a Miriam or Luke or whoever else was on the team.

00:56:16: I'm me being Aaron who is South Asian, this how I am wired.

00:56:21: That's the gift!

00:56:22: God made you this way and placed

00:56:25: that way?

00:56:26: Absolutely!

00:56:26: And then over these years what we do begin to lead others into their own discovery of stuff...and i think thats where it goes..i can't do teaching for ya but i could invite u in your own discovery.

00:56:38: if you need more awareness about your biases welcoming, how do we enlarge our table?

00:56:45: How does it shape this.

00:56:47: It has to be done by you!

00:56:49: You're

00:56:49: not trying make a bunch of errands and people lean into who they are because actually there'll be doing their role in the best way possible.

00:56:59: right when I took over as area director in Young Life i remember like my predecessor because I was, well she did all these things and they were really great.

00:57:10: And then I realised that i just failed on every count!

00:57:14: It felt terrible...I thought I'm not wired to do this.

00:57:18: God why you asked me?

00:57:19: This is a stupid decision in your part.

00:57:23: You should take yourself away from it.

00:57:24: You should read the thing there

00:57:25: And actually when we talked with our friend about it She said Why are you trying to lead her?

00:57:30: Lead Like YOU.

00:57:32: Oh my gosh, you're so right!

00:57:34: And like me isn't perfect but me is uniquely new.

00:57:37: Very good and from then on things fell into place in ways that I wasn't trying to because i'm not trying to be myself...I just am right?

00:57:45: Well what we've been hovering around a lot of the conversation it's What Is Discipleship In many Ways and someone once put this way said Disciple Ship is being Who Jesus would be if he were you which is a really good way of putting it.

00:58:01: It's not just us being Like jesus, it's him totally taking us over in our skin.

00:58:09: He made us who we are and then he used to Be present In that form through you in your time and season generation context country And I think the best really help me with these because this make me realize that i'm To not lead like the person on the left or right, you know that competition thing?

00:58:27: That pride thing we talked about earlier exists in all of us.

00:58:31: Absolutely and so The ability to really learn God You made me in this way.

00:58:36: I mean it's what's driven the vision of Nourjavan for these years has been to Recognize that you are uniquely made.

00:58:42: you Are uniquely placed.

00:58:43: do the things that god called you to do serve others In a way as you do that He can use your example And your life and your vulnerability and weakness to draw others towards him.

00:58:55: Beautiful, and I think that would be often the thing that i'm thinking about.

00:58:58: like if you had a message for young people...I know you weren't particularly students but teens, twenties who are from a South Asian background?

00:59:07: Who maybe are used to the traditional thing or perhaps even just curious what does it really mean to know God?

00:59:15: because your travelling around speaking with these people in all this kind of things What's the thing?

00:59:21: Maybe hovering around what we've talked about.

00:59:22: What would you want them to hear?

00:59:23: Yeah, um I Would say that God sees you for who you are uniquely.

00:59:31: wonderfully made You because i think the kind of comparison thing becomes a massive grip on.

00:59:39: Especially generation is living in a way that's more connected and comparative than any other generation before.

00:59:45: Yeah, I want to say you are uniquely made.

00:59:46: God sees you.

00:59:47: he loves You.

00:59:47: He has a plan the purpose for your life.

00:59:49: number two if you're in a South Asian context or south asian church And you'll struggling or wrestling with arrest wrestling With what does it look like?

00:59:57: For me To be A young person figuring my faith out growing In maybe even wrestling was some of them.

01:00:03: What do they mean from me to lead and shape in this?

01:00:05: i would Say We were talking about before leaving.

01:00:11: The grass is greener, we often say the grasses are green on their other side but I think as Craig or Charlotte said this it's that the grass has greener where you water in and i want to just invite you to dream.

01:00:21: what is possible?

01:00:23: What does one step you can take now?

01:00:24: yeah

01:00:25: In way You Are And What You Have Your Ability To Bring Your Leadership Into That Space Now That Will Shape The Culture For A Whole Generation Coming After.

01:00:34: We Don't Need To Change Everything.

01:00:35: But if we could change one thing, what would you change?

01:00:38: And go for

01:00:38: it.

01:00:39: Because

01:00:39: that's enough!

01:00:40: If we can take one step towards greater vulnerability One step toward an intentional discipleship culture One step towards accountability in our discipleship Whatever that looks like Do the ONE thing Often when want to do the big Start small Be committed.

01:00:55: Go for it because I think It is possible For us To see A generation of South Asian young people who are passionately on fire for Jesus all in for him who will see their local churches mobilized and mission but also see that shape, they're lives.

01:01:10: And my prayer is this to anyone watching go God has a plan on purpose of your life?

01:01:14: Yeah!

01:01:15: He wants do it with you not one day when he got figured out right now or here at school, colleges or university.

01:01:22: its possible for god use as you are.

01:01:25: You need't become like X Y Z That's

01:01:30: so good.